Does YG's Sad Palms increase with emotions?

[Pacifian]

Don't get me wrong. Sad Palms *does* increase of course. The main argument here, however, is more towards the puzzling question that remains unsolved till today even after being posed in several threads.

If YG gets *sadder*, does the power of his Sad Palms increase too?

I have this knack for posing such questions that have been repeated many, many times, but I hope to at least achieve a better understanding of this. Moreover, this knowledge *might* help people understand Yang Guo's skills better, so as to aid the comparison of his skills with other Greats (and eventually GJ), and voila! The debate of GJ vs YG may be solved after all! (Wishful thinking here)

From what I can compile from from previous threads, (I am not a good digger), here's what I see that *might* illuminate things.

Whsie's and my stand:

1. Sad palms are controlled mainly by the heart, therefore a *sadder* emotion leads to a power increase.
2. There is a great difference in YG's emotional state between his final battle and the mini-contest of skills he had with HYS.
.... and many many more.

ChronoReverse's and K2Grey's stand (Their perspective, not mine!):

1. Absurd idea, one shalt not compare Sad palms to a complicated mathematical equation.
2. Nowhere has it been explicitly stated that there is a power increase.
... and other ideas which I shall leave the opposition to do the job.

Of course, the above-mentioned posters might have changed their stand on this matter, nonetheless, I hope this might help to clarify things better.

PS. A poll is coming. And no, there wouldn't be a popcorn option

NOTE: To prevent any confusion like the case which ChronoReverse was thinking I was making him sound idiotic, which I clearly wasn't, I reiterate: the main argument is:

Does the power of Sad Palms increase *any further* if the person was sadder *than usual*.

[ChronoReverse]

I'm glad you're phrasing it in a way to make my stance sound idiotic. Of course SP is stronger when YG's sad. That's the whole point.

What would be absurd is the concept that there's no limit and he just has to get sadder to get stronger (a la the Shishihokodan from Ranma).



The contentious part is the plateau level for YG. Some think (reasonably) that it might be a bit higher than the rest of the Greats. Some (as I do) think that it would be only about par (within the standard deviation, that is, although 1D seems to be the weakest of the remaining Greats, we call it equal since they're so close).

It's only when people give YG a clear victory because "He gets stronger when he's sadder," that I go up in arms. And even now, I've pretty much decided it's not really worth the effort.

[Pacifian]

I'm glad you're phrasing it in a way to make my stance sound idiotic.

You *TOTALLY* misunderstood me.

When I say "absurd idea', I mean from your view, you think that the very notion of power of Sad Palms increasing if one becomes sadder than usual is absurd. I DID not make your stand sound idiotic!

It's only when people give YG a clear victory because "He gets stronger when he's sadder," that I go up in arms.

This was the main argument I was talking about.

Heck, I know you know that Sad palms definitely becomes stronger if one becomes sad, but the question is, would it become *stronger* if you are *sadder*?

[sheraldine]

[QUOTE=Pacifian]If YG gets sadder, does the power of his Sad Palms increase too?


yes but i dont know how to clarify this. i just "KNOW"

and no, i am NOT YG fan. for the sake of this poll

[Ren Ying Ying]

I always thought the "sadness" was a trigger or factor needed to perform the palms efficiently.

Efficiency meaning how well one is able to get out of the stance with the limited power. For example, taking GJ & XL18Z....surely his palms improved between when H7G first taught he stances to him (he could barely make the tree shake) and after he's practiced it for a while (the tree is able to break). His palms would increase in "power" but it wouldn't be due to massive increase in internal energy but efficiency. But there is a max to how much GJ's palms could've improved without increase in internal energy.

the main base for YG palms (like any other palms) should still be YG's internal energy...and internal energy definitely doesn't increase with sadness.

[Whsie]

I still stand with my position.
While I do believe that saddness along with the power would eventually slow down in growth to a certain point, but I believed that plateaued level was not yet reached for YG for him to start that decline in growth speed. IMO, that plateau was only reached during the battle against JLFW and we don't know how he would have increased after that level. So in other words, I still stand that YG was only about semi powered against HYS/ZBT since YG's state of mind wasn't as sad as when YG was about to lose XLN FOREVER!

[Whsie]

I always thought the "sadness" was a trigger or factor needed to perform the palms efficiently.

Efficiency meaning how well one is able to get out of the stance with the limited power. For example, taking GJ & XL18Z....surely his palms improved between when H7G first taught he stances to him (he could barely make the tree shake) and after he's practiced it for a while (the tree is able to break). His palms would increase in "power" but it wouldn't be due to massive increase in internal energy but efficiency. But there is a max to how much GJ's palms could've improved without increase in internal energy.

the main base for YG palms (like any other palms) should still be YG's internal energy...and internal energy definitely doesn't increase with sadness.

The only problem with that logic is that I can say I fail a test and get the same results of the power as having my faimly member dieing. There is a HUGE difference just like there was in ROCH.

[Exodus]

sadness is like drugs/steriod for sad palm it can increase his internal "power" for a period of time

[yittz]

Ok here are my thoughts:

Sadness does not increase YG's internal. It maybe a motivator through the 16years during training, but does momentarily increase his internal. Internal energy is something someone accumulate overtime (generally, exceptions are when there's another party around to leech off or give to), so it doesn't make sense to have YG have short term increase with sadness, then dissapating when returning to normal state.

Sadness during a battle allows YG to utilise his internal energy more effectively (more power). So normally he can pull out an arbitrary one unit, with sadness it becomes two (or whatever), ie similar to XF's rage/drunkeness. In terms of the power vs sadness, it's logical that it will plateau off, and sadness itself seems somewhat finite (lose all his mates and family, see them tortured, how much worse can it get?).

Sadness might also make YG unpredictable - his technique is already strange, but with sadness he might pull out even crazier moves (pure speculation).

Another factor (I think RYY mentioned in the past), is the detrimental effect of sadness on one's ability to perform in battle. It makes sense, when one loses their head and will to live due to overwhelming sadness, they ability to plan, think, counter and their sensory acuity goes down. Thus, this should be added to the plateau graph somewhere and counteracts it. Just not sure where, especially since YG has never (?) shown sadness has an adverse affect on him in battle (maybe if JLFW was more careful and steady, say like GJ, this might have been exposed).

[Whsie]

Another factor (I think RYY mentioned in the past), is the detrimental effect of sadness on one's ability to perform in battle. It makes sense, when one loses their head and will to live due to overwhelming sadness, they ability to plan, think, counter and their sensory acuity goes down. Thus, this should be added to the plateau graph somewhere and counteracts it. Just not sure where, especially since YG has never (?) shown sadness has an adverse affect on him in battle (maybe if JLFW was more careful and steady, say like GJ, this might have been exposed).

I don't think so. Look at XF. He was in pure beast mode at JY Manor, yet he was still killing and killing. I don't think YG at max sad level would be blinded by something like that.

[Bangs]

YG's sad palms are affected by his emotional state. However, it doesn't mean that the sadder he gets the more powerful he becomes. If he is in a complete state of sadness where there is no hint of joy whatsoever, then his sad palms are at max power and can not increase any further. Any feelings of joy will decrease the efficiency of his sad palms; and there is a limit to how much power his sad palms can get(maximum power only if in pure sad state with no mixed emotions). This coming from my understanding of the novel.

[Whsie]

ah you see. By saying that statement, you practically admitted that YG was at a weaker level when fighting HYS/ZBT. Because YG was nearing XLN's reunion, there logically should be "some" hapiness or excitement within him when he fought ZBT or HYS. However, when he fought JLFW, it would be as you said, in a pure sad mood with no mixed emotion.

[duguxiaojing]

I used to believe the greater the sadness the greater the power...now im not entirely convinced. I have no doubt that YG could defeat GWM even without being sad, mainly because he was defeating GWM before GWM cheated. But I have doubts that YG could defeat any* great level fighter in 3 or four stances regardless of how sad he is. As one person pointed out, YG's palms are inner power driven(stated) the stronger the inner power the stronger his palms, and there is a limit ...since YG is roughly= to the other greats in terms of inner power. There had to be other factors involved that allowed YG to defeat GWM so easily. (I think most members subscribe to the "surprise" factor"). Unless of course, YG's inner power some how tremendously increased when his sad...which I doubt.

[Ren Ying Ying]

Sadness might also make YG unpredictable - his technique is already strange, but with sadness he might pull out even crazier moves (pure speculation).

now i'm thinking YG's emotions are more related to his movements for the palms rather than the power of his palms, since a lot of it is also based on the complicated strange moves (at least more stance-based as compared to XL18Z). Of course I DON'T mean this emotions wouldn't affect his palm power efficiency either....

[Fearless]

now i'm thinking YG's emotions are more related to his movements for the palms rather than the power of his palms, since a lot of it is also based on the complicated strange moves (at least more stance-based as compared to XL18Z). Of course I DON'T mean this emotions wouldn't affect his palm power efficiency either....

i share the same sentiments as you. when yg is sad, the moves that he execute might be more vigorous than usual. like in normal cases, he might be using 60% of his power but when he is sad, it might increase to 80% or even 100%. his strokes might be more defensive in normal cases but mostly offensive when he is sad. Emotions certainly play a very important part like when a person is struggling to survive, the strength that he unleashed would be far greater than he is by right capable of. relating back to yg's case, when he is sad his power might increase to about 105%? In conclusion, emotions would have an impact on yg's strokes but play a small part in his power efficency.

[RongYingMin]

I do believe that in general YG's internal energy increases when he gets sadder.
But this probably doesn't last long and there is probably still a limit.
His energy can't be increased forever because anyone has his/her own ability which is not limitless.

[kyss of the sword]

sadness does not increase yang guo's actual inner power. rather, when yang guo feels anxiety, his ability to proper send out his full power in his palm strikes increase to it's fullest. sadness was the crux of his palm moves and without sadness, the essence of his palm skill wasn't there. so he wasn't able to proform his best. with sadness, his palm skill could be shown at it's top power. yang guo only has the amount of inner power which he trained and cultivated. he can't increase it by becoming sad, only release it.