Is Wuxia Fiction dorky?

[Son of Light]

Originally posted by ChronoReverse
Um... You do realize that many girls don't really want to read about some other girl right? Some are perfectly happy to read about heroes like LWC and YG.

There who are the ones reading the love novels?
Shojo mangad and shojo anime should have no market then, according to this.
Unless you are teling me is the guys who go buy the above.
Very unlikily.

Note: The 2 ladie mentioned didn't die because they are not at the top.

There might not be too many outstanding heroine in wu xia fictions but I do not believe that's the impediment in attracting female readers.

Then what is the real reason?

[ChronoReverse]

I should've picked my words more carefully. When I said "many", I really meant that there are those who do not wish to.


Reading about romance is fine. It doesn't matter too much whether the protagonist is a girl or guy. A love story doesn't have to feature a girl...


In other news, SOL has managed to take something to the extreme again.

[Tien Tu]

Originally posted by aficionado
There might not be too many outstanding heroine in wu xia fictions but I do not believe that's the impediment in attracting female readers. Maybe we should not place too much emphasis on whether there are more hero/heroine in the wu xia genre ... a true masterpiece should be able to win the hearts of all aficionado regardless of the protaganist being a hero or heroine.

Agreed. A true masterpiece can and should be able to capture the hearts of many, not just a particular group. However, there is one more basic reason that no one seems to want to bring up here: guys are naturally more violent than girls (tendency wise) so it is more natural for wuxia to appeal to guys. In addition, with the stories being written mainly by males and therefore being able to deal with the inner psyche of males more thoroughly than females, it is only natural that the majority of readership will be males.
It is just like the romance novels in America. While most readers are women, there are a few men reading them. However, the nature of the stories and the fact that mostly women write them appeals mainly to the female sex.

Originally posted by eeyore
one big problem of wuxia to go to mainstream. LANGUAGE.

English IS the International Language, Chinese probably will be one day, until than.. we have to wait.

Another thing is... if the stories can be made popular thru english translation, there maybe more chance.

Agree & disagree. I read wuxia novels in Vietnamese, and wuxia is a very popular genre in the Vietnamese community. So while language is a big factor, it is not as big of a factor as you have claimed. Two, some of the lyricism of the words lose meaning when translated into English and the translations just don't appeal when you read that the name of your hero is something like Eleventh Son. Three, the nature of the wuxia story (be it in a novel or movie/serial) is a little confusing to Westerners because most have not grown up on it like we all have, hence this requires a little more brain power than other forms of entertainment, which does not appeal to a large group of the Western civilization (though this, by no means, involves all or most of the population).


Is wuxia dorky? Well, maybe it is, but what's wrong with being dorky when there's a legion of other people being dorky with you? I guess I'd change that tune if I didn't know people who enjoyed wuxia series or if I hadn't grown up reading stories like Journey To The West, but hey, I am a product of my background.

SOL: I read both wuxia and romance novels. Each have a very different appeal, and it isn't surprising that the two audiences are usually mutually exclusive of each other.

[eeyore]

When I said Language as the one of the barrier, I disregard the cultural background.

Why? I can understand and relate with westerner science fiction thanks because I understand the language. I don't think I would understand (and care) startrek, starwars, babylon 5, stargate, etc if I can't understand the language.

My friends, who doesn't know Chinese culture more than Chinese New Year, manage to like Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Chow Yun Fat, etc... I've a Lebanese friend and big fan of Jet Li. It's all possible because they understand the film and story in their own language.

another 2 cents of mine

[luna_rainbow]

Originally posted by Son of Light
There who are the ones reading the love novels?
Shojo mangad and shojo anime should have no market then, according to this.
Unless you are teling me is the guys who go buy the above.
Very unlikily.

Well, to be truthful, I read shoujo manga mostly for the guys too. Apart from a select few good authors, the majority (especially the more classic authors) of shoujo authors are rarely able to create a realistic, likeable heroine. I'm not sure if you want examples, but take Usagi (Serena/Sailormoon), or Miaka (Fushigi Yuugi) - they are no better than any girl in a wuxia novel: whiny, self-centered, short-sighted, attention-seeking etc....Or the more "tomboyish" examples such as Akane (Ranma) who was supposedly "strong" but was also terribly insensitive and narrow-minded. So I haven't really been expecting a likeable girl in shoujo manga either, but I still enjoy reading it, just as I enjoy GL (who has absolutely despicable women). I guess it's just a thing I manage to learn to ignore ^^

Of course, the newer wave of shoujo authors (if my prediction is correct) seems to be bringing in a new generation of better, more realistic, more likeable girls, worthy of the admiration they get. Eg. take any girl from Fruits Basket, or from the newer authors who have been appearing in Ribbon (THE shoujo magazine)...they can kick Miaka's *** any day.

Ah, back to the question of whether wuxia appeals to girls because of its irrelevance and male dominance - I think it still does, it just depends on the person. What attracts me to the works is the thick emotions associated with the heroes, and since most of the situations are pretty fantastical, I cease to rationalise the events.

[Son of Light]

I was talking about things like furuba, not S.M when refering to Shoujo

[Yon]

Originally posted by eeyore
When I said Language as the one of the barrier, I disregard the cultural background.

Why? I can understand and relate with westerner science fiction thanks because I understand the language. I don't think I would understand (and care) startrek, starwars, babylon 5, stargate, etc if I can't understand the language.

My friends, who doesn't know Chinese culture more than Chinese New Year, manage to like Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Chow Yun Fat, etc... I've a Lebanese friend and big fan of Jet Li. It's all possible because they understand the film and story in their own language.

another 2 cents of mine

Just in case if many of you didn't realize...

I AM KOREAN!

[Tien Tu]

Originally posted by eeyore
When I said Language as the one of the barrier, I disregard the cultural background.

Why? I can understand and relate with westerner science fiction thanks because I understand the language. I don't think I would understand (and care) startrek, starwars, babylon 5, stargate, etc if I can't understand the language.

My friends, who doesn't know Chinese culture more than Chinese New Year, manage to like Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Chow Yun Fat, etc... I've a Lebanese friend and big fan of Jet Li. It's all possible because they understand the film and story in their own language.

another 2 cents of mine

The thing is that Star Trek and shows like it are not culture specific, and Jet Li, Bruce Lee, Chow Yun Fat, Jackie Chan, and all other stars like them are those who [generally] make action/martial arts movies, which is not a genre unique to China/Asia. Wuxia is specific, and some of the content is not exactly well-known to non-Asians, which requires them to pay more attention than usual to understand wuxia. I'm not saying it's going to take rocket scientists, but they'd certain have to pay more attention to wuxia movies than they would pay to something like xXx. Come on. You really think that someone who've never been exposed to wuxia is not going to go "HUH?" when a term like Wudang (sp?)comes up?

Of course I agree that language is a barrier. After all, I prefer to watch wuxia in Viet rather than Chinese simply because I am fluent in one and not quite as much in the other. However, understanding the language and understand the story are two different issues.

[Yang Guo]

They'll know WuDang from Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon

That movie wasn't THAT good... stupid Americans *shakes head*

[Ken Cheng]

They'll probably also recognize Wudang (Wu-Tang) from the popular rap combo Wu-Tang Clan.

[Arisa]

on the issue of shouju manga - i have a feeling that it doesnt always focused on girl leads. most of higuri you's works focused on a male lead. (but her books often led to yaoi, so thats understandable ~_~) morinaga ai's yamada tarou monogatari has it totally on the male in the story - the female character (accept for tarou's bubbly mother - shes very cute) are unimportant. saito chiho (author of utena, etc.) has more decent likable female leads though. saemi takahashi's kirakira kaoru's "main lead" arent particularly interesting...its the side characters (males again) that makes it funny. hojo tsukasa's angel heart focused on an assasin-girl glassheart. (i wouldnt call it shouju manga though) his other title, F-Compo, i sincerely find his girls more interesting - masahisa (male lead) was pretty "crappy" but his cousin, shion was very cool. ^^

the lead isnt as important - though i can understand why they pick males more often than females. i think its more of the focus of the story - a plot that focus alot on emotional relationships appeal to womenfolk more so than fight fight and more fight and "winning the competition" deal. its almost an ego factor (many of us has this "wanting to win" desire and by watching out hero kick *** we get some satisfaction) and there are more boys appreciating it than girls.

As for whether wuxia is dorky or not i ahve no idea. i have always enjoyed wuxia fiction. LOLz.

[luna_rainbow]

Originally posted by Son of Light
I was talking about things like furuba, not S.M when refering to Shoujo

But SailorMoon is pretty much "the" shoujo (as the US world sees it)... Furuba and other better written shoujo stories are yet to become a classic. Also, while Tooru is very likeable, it's an indisputable fact that a lot of Furuba fans are probably more interested in watching their favourite guy (whether it be Kyou, Yuki, or whoever...)

As for Arisa's point, yes, not all shoujo manga revolve around girls. More examples include Kaori Yuki's works (although quite a number of guys like her works as well), and Clamp is definitely shoujo, but most of their stories often center around guys (okay, Clamp is also borderline yaoi).

As for romance (speaking for the anime side of things again) there is a vast male audience for romance-oriented anime/manga works such as Love Hina, I''s, GTO etc.

[Arisa]

there is a vast male audience for romance-oriented anime/manga works such as Love Hina, I''s, GTO etc.

how to tell if the romance is geared towards male audience - more ecchi-borderline scenarios....*accidental peek at girl, slight rubbing against some "parts"...etc.

psychic academy - love triangle but theres more than enough scenes with shiomi ai accidentally getting "more than bargained" with myuu and orina.

love hina - keitarou has five erm...yeah five girls in the inn..with him...and he has several "accidents" with naru.

i"s - boy likes girl and girl likes boy..and boy is remarkably shy and so is the girl. boy has other admirers who are remarkably forward; and a few inevitable accidents.

chobits - how many times does chii gets to strip? and hideki gets to see it? nuff said!


and one last factor...notice how a more "feminine" discussion will focus on relationship aspects of the novel, and the "masculine" discussion takes on the "who has better kongfu and hammer it down to every stroke?"....note that i seldom reply in the latter sort of thread.

[Son of Light]

I think it's because "who has better kongfu" doesn't require as much brain power and sensetivity to debate when compare to debates about relationships.

[Athena]

I love the wuxia genre and I'm not afraid to admit here! I hate to pat myself on the back here.
I think in the past two years I've sort become one of the wuxia gurus here. (Does that sound idiotic or arrogant)
For crying out loud I'm even summarizing, translating wuxia novels in my free time.
Sign me up for "Wuxia Anonymous" (W.A.)! I need help.

[expression]

I'm not a wuxia expert, but I love wuxia & ROTK and never read love stories. I'm a girl. Weird one maybe.

I agree that there's a lack of independent, outstanding female xias at least in JY novels. Not like tag-on female xias whose life evolve aroound the male xia. I made a thread on that when I first arrived in spcnet. It's also interesting that there has been no female wuxia authors, not that I know of. Wonder why.

[Yon]

WoooHooo.. more female Wu Xia Lovers...

Girls!!!

GIve me Hi-Fiv!!!!

SO I am not the only one....

[Arisa]

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/18...erence_+.shtml

maybe it doesnt work as well in the chinese text...but heres something to think about......

[crazy]

I love wuxia and watch nothing but wuxia and I do agree that we should have some more heroines cause its getting boring always watching guys do the hero routine over and over again. And I don't like love stories because they just seem to be so draggy and I am a girl.

But, you know for wuxia to be known outside of the asian community into the west is kinda impossible. How are going to try and explain what jian hu is to an American. They would never get it because, they don't share the same cultural heritage as we asians do. They didn't grow up and have those asian influences in their lives. Unless they understand chinese history and customs, I wouldn't know how to explain it to them.

[Arisa]

Originally posted by Son of Light
I think it's because "who has better kongfu" doesn't require as much brain power and sensetivity to debate when compare to debates about relationships.

LOL...i wont know about that, but i know im less inclined to be involved in such topics - after all it doesnt seemed that important to me. (not to mention i dont quite remember how fantastic the strokes are...but i do remember who likes who and hates who...female mind ticking? LOL)