ZWJ, the real MAN of the Condor Trilogy

[Western Eccentric]

Guo jing is written as perfect hero, which is not possible exist in this world
Yang Guo is written as a perfect lover
But ZWJ is written as more human, with his plus and minus, put in some difficult moment he has to resolve to end the endless fight, he is also given lack (as viewers called it wishy washy and having to much mercy) making him look weaker compare to GJ and YG
But i look at this as the advance writing of JY who wanted to make the story much complicated than before. We have to look at the year of the novel written. The latter the novel, the more complicated it is

Guo Jing Yang Guo Xiao Feng or Greats could easily beat anybody which far below their level while "held back" so is not about your "merciful" but your lack of "fighting skills"..

[St3v3]

Guo Jing Yang Guo Xiao Feng or Greats could easily beat anybody which far below their level while "held back" so is not about your "merciful" but your lack of "fighting skills"..

That is what is written in ZWJ wikipedia quoted by JY himself, he made ZWJ more "realistic" and complicated
The point to comparing different novel is difficult like comparing Wilt Chamberlain vs Michael Jordan vs Lebron James

the ZWJ haters will always look at his minuses, not pluses.

[Western Eccentric]

That is what is written in ZWJ wikipedia quoted by JY himself, he made ZWJ more "realistic" and complicated
The point to comparing different novel is difficult like comparing Wilt Chamberlain vs Michael Jordan vs Lebron James

the ZWJ haters will always look at his minuses, not pluses.

Haha that's why Wuji is not my "ideal hero" though he possessed very high and unparalleled martial arts/skills he never "impress" me due for his lacking of warrior mentality/fighting spirit and experience..

[Ken Cheng]

Haha that's why Wuji is not my "ideal hero" though he possessed very high and unparalleled martial arts/skills he never "impress" me due for his lacking of warrior mentality/fighting spirit and experience..

I like that quality about him; he finds ways to prevail without fighting. His doctrine seemed to be attempting to do the most good by doing the least harm.

[Western Eccentric]

I like that quality about him; he finds ways to prevail without fighting. His doctrine seemed to be attempting to do the most good by doing the least harm.

Yeah he even "indirectly" let her grandfather die in battle due the tendension not to "harm" anybody what a mister nice guy..

[Western Eccentric]

Skill wise and internal energy cultivation wise...ZWJ at the end of HSDS should be on par with the GREATS at the end of ROCH....however, in fighting and battle experience, he will probably lose out to the GREATS.

but....what ZWJ has is some serious potential. He was in his early 20s at the end of HSDS and armed with an array of pretty impressive martial arts skills (9Yang, QKDNY, Persian MA from the Fire Tablets, Taichi Fists, Taichi Sword), his eventual martial arts evolution should surpass the GREATS easily when he reaches the same age as the relatively young YG at the end of ROCH.

Totally agree with you the problem with Wuji is not his martial arts/skills level but his capability to using it properly in the other word is not about martial arts prowess but fighting prowess..

[Ken Cheng]

Yeah he even "indirectly" let her grandfather die in battle due the tendension not to "harm" anybody what a mister nice guy..

Cheung Mo Gei is only human; he isn't omniscient or omnipotent, and his original plan was for Yeung Siu and (the younger and healthier) Fan Yiu to join him against the Shaolin formation. He could not have expected that Yan Teen Jing would volunteer to help fight the monks, and once Yan demanded the opportunity, it would have been disrespectful and unfilial for CMG to deny his grandfather the opportunity to test his mettle.

[Western Eccentric]

Cheung Mo Gei is only human; he isn't omniscient or omnipotent, and his original plan was for Yeung Siu and (the younger and healthier) Fan Yiu to join him against the Shaolin formation. He could not have expected that Yan Teen Jing would volunteer to help fight the monks, and once Yan demanded the opportunity, it would have been disrespectful and unfilial for CMG to deny his grandfather the opportunity to test his mettle.

If 3 vs 1 is true Wuji couldn't win against Du Monks but at that time it's 2 vs 1 yet Wuji still being "chocker" though he know the "consequence" if he couldn't beat Du Monks then Xie Xun would be in "danger" and we know the result he "fail" and "indirectly" let his grandfather "perish"..

[Ken Cheng]

If 3 vs 1 is true Wuji couldn't win against Du Monks but at that time it's 2 vs 1 yet Wuji still being "chocker" though he know the "consequence" if he couldn't beat Du Monks then Xie Xun would be in "danger" and we know the result he "fail" and "indirectly" let his grandfather "perish"..

Cheung Mo Gei's ploy during the operation that ended Yan Teen Jing's life had actually been *successful.* He did reach Tse Tsun and could have rescued him from Shaolin right there and then, but Tse Tsun didn't want to be rescued. Filled with remorse for the many lives he had taken, Tse Tsun refused to leave the pit with Cheung Mo Gei. That delay might well have cost Yan Teen Jing his life. If Tse Tsun had just left with Cheung Mo Gei, then perhaps the fight occurring in the trees above would not have lasted long enough to be fatal to Yan Teen Jing.

[Western Eccentric]

Cheung Mo Gei's ploy during the operation that ended Yan Teen Jing's life had actually been *successful.* He did reach Tse Tsun and could have rescued him from Shaolin right there and then, but Tse Tsun didn't want to be rescued. Filled with remorse for the many lives he had taken, Tse Tsun refused to leave the pit with Cheung Mo Gei. That delay might well have cost Yan Teen Jing his life. If Tse Tsun had just left with Cheung Mo Gei, then perhaps the fight occurring in the trees above would not have lasted long enough to be fatal to Yan Teen Jing.

3 vs 1 Wuji "struggling" so logically if 2 vs 1 Wuji would easily win not only the decline of Du Monks "power" but also they "formation" but we know what happens I wonder if we put Guo Jing or Xiao Feng at Wuji place they would "destroy" Du E and Du Ji "immediately" which mean the "delay fight" wouldn't exist anymore..

[Ken Cheng]

3 vs 1 Wuji "struggling" so logically if 2 vs 1 Wuji would easily win not only the decline of Du Monks "power" but also they "formation" but we know what happens I wonder if we put Guo Jing or Xiao Feng at Wuji place they would "destroy" Du E and Du Ji "immediately" which mean the "delay fight" wouldn't exist anymore..

I don't think a single Greats level fighter can break the three monks' formation. The monks themselves observed it would take two Greats-level fighters to ensure success against their formation. As formidable as fighters such as Yeung Siu and Yan Teen Jing were, they weren't enough to move the needle against the formation even with a single Great fighting alongside them. It would take two Greats to decisively break the formation.

How Cheung Mo Gei managed to do it with Chow Chi Yerk's unhelpful contribution is a bit of a mystery.

[Western Eccentric]

I don't think a single Greats level fighter can break the three monks' formation. The monks themselves observed it would take two Greats-level fighters to ensure success against their formation. As formidable as fighters such as Yeung Siu and Yan Teen Jing were, they weren't enough to move the needle against the formation even with a single Great fighting alongside them. It would take two Greats to decisively break the formation.

How Cheung Mo Gei managed to do it with Chow Chi Yerk's unhelpful contribution is a bit of a mystery.

I don't say 1 vs 3 but when 1 vs 2 which people like Xiao Feng/Guo Jing could break it easily so Wuji which considered as strong as Guo Jing/Xiao Feng logically could easily win in 1 vs 2 situation yet he still "lousy" also I don't think that no one Greats can break Demon Subduing Formation though not every Greats could break it either I mean it's depends on Greats skillset for example people like Guo Jing his skillset allowed him to fight against formation better than say Jinlun Fawang thanks for his L/R Hand Skills and Quanzhen Big Dipper theory so no matter 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 I think Guo Jing would win especially in 1 vs 2 situation..

[EdenResident]

I don't say 1 vs 3 but when 1 vs 2 which people like Xiao Feng/Guo Jing could break it easily so Wuji which considered as strong as Guo Jing/Xiao Feng logically could easily win in 1 vs 2 situation yet he still "lousy" also I don't think that no one Greats can break Demon Subduing Formation though not every Greats could break it either I mean it's depends on Greats skillset for example people like Guo Jing his skillset allowed him to fight against formation better than say Jinlun Fawang thanks for his L/R Hand Skills and Quanzhen Big Dipper theory so no matter 1 vs 2 or 1 vs 3 I think Guo Jing would win especially in 1 vs 2 situation..

Ok you're just making shit up now. GJ has never beaten 2 60+ level fighters. Xiao Feng actually LOST against MRF and YTZ, also 2 60+ level fighters in the same rank as the Du monks.

So there's no basis to say XF and GJ would have easily beaten the 2 Du monks fighting in a formation. ZWJ at least DID show that he beat the 2 Du monks (easily or not, it's up for debate).

[EdenResident]

BTW, I didn't bring up the XF battle to belittle him because indeed, MRF+YTZ did have the perfect storm of a synergy. It was just meant to say, it's NEVER easy for a Great to beat 2 60+ level fighters, especially when they fight in a synergistic formation.

(Its also why I put DFBB around 90, not just 85 but that's another debate).

[Ken Cheng]

BTW, I didn't bring up the XF battle to belittle him because indeed, MRF+YTZ did have the perfect storm of a synergy. It was just meant to say, it's NEVER easy for a Great to beat 2 60+ level fighters, especially when they fight in a synergistic formation.

I'm still quite impressed with how Kiu Fung singlehandedly held off Mo Yung F'uk, Yau Tan Tze, AND Ding Chun Chou momentarily, though things would have gone badly for KF if Hui Juk and Deun Yu didn't promptly intervene to take the heat off of him. Still, even lasting against those three for the brief moments that he did was hella impressive.

[Western Eccentric]

I'm still quite impressed with how Kiu Fung singlehandedly held off Mo Yung F'uk, Yau Tan Tze, AND Ding Chun Chou momentarily, though things would have gone badly for KF if Hui Juk and Deun Yu didn't promptly intervene to take the heat off of him. Still, even lasting against those three for the brief moments that he did was hella impressive.

The problem within these trio is You Tanzhi have superior strength than Xiao Feng while Wuji the Du Monks only as good as him that's why almost imposible to deal with You Tanzhi and co than Du Monks..

[EdenResident]

I'm still quite impressed with how Kiu Fung singlehandedly held off Mo Yung F'uk, Yau Tan Tze, AND Ding Chun Chou momentarily, though things would have gone badly for KF if Hui Juk and Deun Yu didn't promptly intervene to take the heat off of him. Still, even lasting against those three for the brief moments that he did was hella impressive.

This is similar to how LOCH GJ, at one point in time, was fighting all 3 of OYF+ZBT+QQR at once!!

[Ken Cheng]

This is similar to how LOCH GJ, at one point in time, was fighting all 3 of OYF+ZBT+QQR at once!!

It was worse for Gwok Jing. At least Kiu Fung could say that individually, he was better than any of his three opponents. At the time that Gwok Jing fought those three opponents, each of them was superior to him! How DID he survive?!

[Western Eccentric]

It was worse for Gwok Jing. At least Kiu Fung could say that individually, he was better than any of his three opponents. At the time that Gwok Jing fought those three opponents, each of them was superior to him! How DID he survive?!

That's why L/R Hand Skills is the best art against multiple opponents ..

[Ken Cheng]

That's why L/R Hand Skills is the best art against multiple opponents ..

Chow Bak Tung also knew that skill (he invented it and taught it to Gwok Jing), however, and was more accomplished at it than Gwok Jing, especially at that time.