Would any wulin man choose the Qwai Fa Bo Deen if other elite skills were available?

[KeongJai]

hard to tell because haven't seen KFBD/PXJF against anything super (9Yin/9Yang etc.)
People would just go for whichever one was better.

[ChanceEncounter]

hard to tell because haven't seen KFBD/PXJF against anything super (9Yin/9Yang etc.)
People would just go for whichever one was better.

We rarely got to see 9Yin/9Yang against anything 'super' either. But it's probably safe to assume that DFBB is, at least, on the same tier as Guo Jing and Zhang Wuji, who mastered the respective 9 Yin/9 Yang.

[KeongJai]

We rarely got to see 9Yin/9Yang against anything 'super' either. But it's probably safe to assume that DFBB is, at least, on the same tier as Guo Jing and Zhang Wuji, who mastered the respective 9 Yin/9 Yang.

yeah but at least you can make a comparision if 9yin or 9yang was active during spw, at least in terms of reputation. Assume KFBD had equal status as 9Yin in terms of reputation, people would still search for both manuals. But IMO people would not learn KFBD if there was an alternative.

e.g. YBQ he tried to practice PXJF without castrating first but when he couldn't he did it. If 9Yin was around he'd probably try to get his hands on that before resorting to castration.

[HuntingX]

I probably wrote something slightly wrong.

What I meant to say was, DFBB was undefeated after ascending to the leadership of Sun Moon sect, something that is textually explicit.

Seeing as how he ascended before mastery, he must have been #1 before KHBD, which means we are unsure how powerful KHBD is by itself.

[cristal entity]

yeah but at least you can make a comparision if 9yin or 9yang was active during spw, at least in terms of reputation. Assume KFBD had equal status as 9Yin in terms of reputation, people would still search for both manuals. But IMO people would not learn KFBD if there was an alternative.

e.g. YBQ he tried to practice PXJF without castrating first but when he couldn't he did it. If 9Yin was around he'd probably try to get his hands on that before resorting to castration.

Um where was that in the book?

[ChronoReverse]

Been speculated before. YJJ and Bei Ming seems to be able to merge different energy streams. So either one could possibly tame the Bi Xie/Kui Hua energies. You don't even need to disconnect your nuts.

That's no good though since that would just give you YJJ or BMSG energy. High internal energy won't make PXJF work (properly).

It was the trying to use the energy according to the KHBD formula that caused serious problems if you don't do the castration. Assuming that is unavoidable, a temporary disconnection is the best course of action =D

[Ken Cheng]

Assuming that is unavoidable, a temporary disconnection is the best course of action =D

Anatomically, that's probably out of the question...even in a universe where one can supposedly replace ruined eyeballs. Maybe great medical experts such as Divine Healer Sit, the Indian Healer Monk, or Dr. Wu Ching Ngau could devise a *chemical* way to get around the problem...at least temporarily.

[ChronoReverse]

Well if YJJ can modify one's own body to the point of changing your tendons, a part of the body that has trouble just healing, I figure it ought to be able to plug up some tubes =P

[the.raven]

i dont think DFBB is only around the level of the Greats, I think hes much higher in power.

I doubt any of the greats would be able to take on linghu "surprising position" chong, ren "I suck as i please" woxing, xiang "footprint on concrete" wentian, and "condor hero" shangguan yun, all at the same time, AND KICK THEIR ***.

[Ken Cheng]

Well if YJJ can modify one's own body to the point of changing your tendons, a part of the body that has trouble just healing, I figure it ought to be able to plug up some tubes =P

Castration is much more irrevocable than even a vasectomy, however. The whole organ is removed. It'd involve more than relinking some severed tubes...it'd be wholesale organ regeneration from scratch.

[Ken Cheng]

i dont think DFBB is only around the level of the Greats, I think hes much higher in power.

I doubt any of the greats would be able to take on linghu "surprising position" chong, ren "I suck as i please" woxing, xiang "footprint on concrete" wentian, and "condor hero" shangguan yun, all at the same time, AND KICK THEIR ***.

You're entitled to think so, but let's see your reasoning.

[the.raven]

You're entitled to think so, but let's see your reasoning.

well unless you think renwoxing + linghu chong + xiang wentian < a single great, I dont see why not.

[Ken Cheng]

well unless you think renwoxing + linghu chong + xiang wentian < a single great, I dont see why not.

That's just it: I can't say that those three would be able to match or surpass a Great from the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY because they haven't fought a Great (and for obvious reasons, never can).

There are enough amazing feats in both eras to make the results anything but clear-cut.

[KeongJai]

Um where was that in the book?

I was thinking of the SOD96 series.

I guess it probably wasn't in the book. From memory, the book went from YBQ stole the PXJF manual --> YBQ moved a lot like DFBB and nothing about him inbetween.

[ChronoReverse]

Castration is much more irrevocable than even a vasectomy, however. The whole organ is removed. It'd involve more than relinking some severed tubes...it'd be wholesale organ regeneration from scratch.

Physical castration sure, but the point is to remove the sex drive and divert for other purposes. I'd think that "simply" disconnecting the meridians and any flow carrying hormones would have a similar effect.

Of course, it's just me being silly about the idea.

[Ken Cheng]

Physical castration sure, but the point is to remove the sex drive and divert for other purposes. I'd think that "simply" disconnecting the meridians and any flow carrying hormones would have a similar effect.

Drugs might be able to do the same, and without the permanence of tissue removal/modification.

If only any of the great healers from the Jin Yong canon ever could have taken a crack at it...

[ChanceEncounter]

yeah but at least you can make a comparision if 9yin or 9yang was active during spw, at least in terms of reputation. Assume KFBD had equal status as 9Yin in terms of reputation, people would still search for both manuals. But IMO people would not learn KFBD if there was an alternative.

e.g. YBQ he tried to practice PXJF without castrating first but when he couldn't he did it. If 9Yin was around he'd probably try to get his hands on that before resorting to castration.

Reputation does not equal to power. I'm saying that there is no evidence to suggest that KHBD/BXJ is inferior to 9Yin and 9Yang, and the evidence is that DFBB is at least on the same tier as GJ and ZWJ, the masters of the two aforementioned arts.

On the other hand, DFBB did not have the complete manuscript, and did not have as impressive a laundry list of martial arts. He certainly didn't have offensive manuevers such as XL18Z or as good a defensive art as QKDNY. This would imply that the value of KHBD is at least as good as 9Yin/9Yang.

Of course if you had the two manuscripts laid out before someone, and they would both take them where they wanted to go, then I'm sure almost all of them would pick 9Yin/9Yang over KHBD. However, that doesn't mean that people wouldn't still want to take the quick/overnight solution, especially if it could potentially mean even more power down the line.

[CC]

I probably wrote something slightly wrong.

What I meant to say was, DFBB was undefeated after ascending to the leadership of Sun Moon sect, something that is textually explicit.

Seeing as how he ascended before mastery, he must have been #1 before KHBD, which means we are unsure how powerful KHBD is by itself.

Why?

RWX gave him the KHBD while RWX was still leader. So it could mean that even with a short time training it, DFBB was confident enough to overthrow Ren.

[HuntingX]

DFBB had some base martial arts which everyone in S/M knew.

Everyone was surprised that he had turned into some freak monster, so he had not used KHBD (at least, not extensively) prior to his first appearance.

Further, there were no mentions in Jianghu that he was bindingly fast or that he was turning into some woman. He was just really really good.

This all leads me to believe that he did not train KHBD in any significant degree until well into his own reign as leader.

Also consider that when RWX was talking about DFBB (prior to meeting him), he didn't mention KHBD in the latter's repertoire at all, which means it is unlikely DFBB used it to overthrow him in the first place.

[ChronoReverse]

Overthrowing RWX had nothing to with martial arts and everything to do with conspiracy. This was one of the points of the novel.


DFBB could not have been DFBB prior to deposing RWX because RWX would never have stood for such a thing. Furthermore, RWX respected DFBB for his intrigue against him and didn't even mention a word about martial arts. Therefore, DFBB only achieved that level afterwards.


Finally, the nature of KHBD hides itself quite well. DFBB would've used his normal martial arts except with the bursts speed that are easily allowed for by KHBD. Similar to what we discussed about LYT, this would cause observers to think that somehow an otherwise not so extraordinary move was actually very powerful.

Also, we know that DFBB retreated from wulin and didn't really fight anyone for a significant period of time before the novel events but still continue the methods of KHBD. This time allows even further extremes of speed.

Furthermore, DFBB was up against three of the most powerful fighters in the novel. He also no longer cared about holding back and just used his speed outright. In addition, he only had a sewing needle and thus had to skip technique and almost entirely relied on speed.

This had the effect of revealing the speed very clearly and also opening the eyes of LHC to the real nature of KHBD and PXJF.