Xiao Feng & Zhang Sanfeng -vs- Guo Jing & Zhang Wuji

[the.raven]

LOL if you put ZWJ in XF's place he would be dead long time ago

ZWJ would pwn YTZ and MRF, and just throw in DCQ to top it off.

[Exodus]

RE: If ZWJ had to fight YTZ+MRF

Actually, that would be interesting to see.

Since ZWJ had QKDNY, he should be able to "see" the weakness in MRF's techniques. He is also able to shift the two opponent's attacks onto each other.


ZWJ also had 9-yang. He might be able to counter YTZ's icy chi, since he can counter the XM elders'.

i believe YTZ's icy chi i way beyond that of XM elders so ZWJ might struggle even more than against the elders. QKDNY is not an allpowerful MA and in actual combat you have to rely on fighting spirit something ZWJ lacks

[druid]

My two cents worth... team "old man" Z3F and " I can drink more than you can imagine" XF will win over team " I would have really cut of my daughters's hand" GJ and " I go gaga over a pretty lady" ZWJ.

Yet i believe that the fight may drag a little longer than expected as GJ knows some formation fighting? While ZWJ has hell lot of abundance of internal energy...9yin plus 9 yang... who knows what crazy suitable combination both GJ and ZWJ can come up with?

On a side not, XF's hard fighting style may or may not complement the soft style of Z3F...

[Snafu3721]

i believe YTZ's icy chi i way beyond that of XM elders so ZWJ might struggle even more than against the elders. QKDNY is not an allpowerful MA and in actual combat you have to rely on fighting spirit something ZWJ lacks

TYZ's icy chi definitely seems to be stronger and more deadly. But XF, without super Yang powered chi, can handle TYZ. So if we put ZWJ and XF on the same level internal power wise, I'd think ZWJ would do a better job countering YTZ.

That's because 9-Yang seems to be able to "dissipate" icy types of chi and QKDNY is able to redirect attacks. I don't think ZWJ would feel the same numbness in his hands that XF did when clashing with YTZ.

Fighting spirit wise, I don't know if ZWJ would need to have XF's ferocity when dealing with the likes of MRF and YTZ. Now, if it was a fight of ZWJ against XF... then yes, the fighting spirit definitely becomes a factor.

[Exodus]

TYZ's icy chi definitely seems to be stronger and more deadly. But XF, without super Yang powered chi, can handle TYZ. So if we put ZWJ and XF on the same level internal power wise, I'd think ZWJ would do a better job countering YTZ.

That's because 9-Yang seems to be able to "dissipate" icy types of chi and QKDNY is able to redirect attacks. I don't think ZWJ would feel the same numbness in his hands that XF did when clashing with YTZ.

Fighting spirit wise, I don't know if ZWJ would need to have XF's ferocity when dealing with the likes of MRF and YTZ. Now, if it was a fight of ZWJ against XF... then yes, the fighting spirit definitely becomes a factor.

Even if ZWJ can handle YTZ palms he have no hopes of defeating the combo of YTZ and MRF. You must remember that ZWJ have problems dealing with opponents far inferior to him. So when even the mighty XF couldn't defeat the combo what chance does ZWJ have

ZWJ is a major choker who does not have the fighting ability of XF, GJ and YG

[flamer]

I think it is fair to say that

ZWJ/Z3F>GJ>XF

internal-wise.

[Exodus]

I think it is fair to say that

ZWJ/Z3F>GJ>XF

internal-wise.

nah I don't think ZWJ have better internal than GJ or XF. Why would you think that?

[flamer]

nah I don't think ZWJ have better internal than GJ or XF. Why would you think that?

Well...

ZWJ- Full 9Yang internal.
GJ- Full 9 Yin internal.
XF- Full Shaolin internal...

XF/GJ's internal never struck me as immensely strong to be honest. They are just your average Great-level internal (although GJ should slightly > XF cuz of 9Yin).

[Exodus]

Well...

ZWJ- Full 9Yang internal.
GJ- Full 9 Yin internal.
XF- Full Shaolin internal...

XF/GJ's internal never struck me as immensely strong to be honest. They are just your average Great-level internal (although GJ should slightly > XF cuz of 9Yin).

I think it was mentioned in HSDS that at their peak both 9 yang and shaolin internal is the same.

The reason why you think so is maybe there are only 2 greats in HSDS while in LOCH/ROCH there are a handful and in DGSD there are people like DY, XZ and sweeper who all have double or triple the inner power of your average great.

Even the weakest fighter can look good when you compare him with people who are even worse

[flamer]

I think it was mentioned in HSDS that at their peak both 9 yang and shaolin internal is the same.

The reason why you think so is maybe there are only 2 greats in HSDS while in LOCH/ROCH there are a handful and in DGSD there are people like DY, XZ and sweeper who all have double or triple the inner power of your average great.

Even the weakest fighter can look good when you compare him with people who are even worse

Indeed Z3F mentioned that in HSDS. But what are the chances of Xiao Feng getting to the PEAK of Shaolin... same goes for ZWJ's 9Yang... I doubt they have reached the peak of their respective internal art. However 9 Yang is better when the person actually did not reach the peak of the art, as compared to normal Shaolin internal.

[Dennis Chen]

LOL if you put ZWJ in XF's place he would be dead long time ago

Maybe not. ZWJ's internal may be lower than YTZ's, however, 9 Yang could provide protection against the Ice Worm Palm. ZWJ's internal is probably higher than Murong Fu. All ZWJ would have to do is use QKDNY and redirect Murong Fu's attacks against YTZ.

[Ken Cheng]

Cheung Mo Gei could be bad, bad news for Yau Tan Tze. Not only does the 9 Yeung inner power stand a very good chance of repelling Yau's cold poisons (which probably isn't that different from Yeun Ming Divine Palm poison or that Ice Palm of Wai 1 Siu's), but also the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee can send the cold poison back towards Yau Tan Tze.

Cheung Mo Gei is the one opponent that Yau really wouldn't want to fight.

[Exodus]

Cheung Mo Gei could be bad, bad news for Yau Tan Tze. Not only does the 9 Yeung inner power stand a very good chance of repelling Yau's cold poisons (which probably isn't that different from Yeun Ming Divine Palm poison or that Ice Palm of Wai 1 Siu's), but also the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee can send the cold poison back towards Yau Tan Tze.

Cheung Mo Gei is the one opponent that Yau really wouldn't want to fight.

nah to do that ZWJ must have higher internal than YTZ which im still sure about. QKDNY is not all-powerful it can't redirect all kinds of attacks.

YTZ's cold chi/poisons should be more deadly than anything ZWJ have faced in XM elders.

Pretty convinced that the combo will beat ZWJ without too much trouble

[PJ]

I think it is fair to say that

ZWJ/Z3F>GJ>XF

internal-wise.

It should be the other way around:

Xiao Feng > Guo Jing >= Zhang Wuji >= Zhang Sanfeng.

ZWJ- Full 9Yang internal.
GJ- Full 9 Yin internal.
XF- Full Shaolin internal...

Xiao Feng started training advanced Shaolin art at age SEVEN. Which other protagonist started training advanced martial arts that early? No one.

Guo Jing practiced 9 Yin 20+ years longer than Zhang Wuji practiced 9 Yang.

[Dennis Chen]

The difference is that ZWJ essentially "bi guan" for 5 years to learn 9 Yang. Whereas Guo Jing learned had to take care of defending China and did not dedicate the kind of time to learning 9 Ying that ZWJ dedicated to 9 Yang.

Kinda like how Ouyang Feng had to seal himself away for years and years to relearn his kung fu after Wang Chongyang destroyed it. And Ouyang Feng was still able to catch up to the other Greats after the years he spent relearning his kung fu.

Pretty convinced that the combo will beat ZWJ without too much trouble

You always look up to Xiao Feng and look down on Zhang Wuji. What's your reasoning for MRF+YTZ being able to beat ZWJ? I'd love to hear it.

[ChanceEncounter]

YTZ's icy palms shouldn't really be compared to the Xuan Ming elders. After all, YTZ's palms were based on an extremely rare creature. The Xuan Ming elder's palm also requires their internal to be greater than the opponent for the full effect.

That said, saying that ZWJ is more equipped to handle YTZ than XF may be true, but ultimately irrelevant in this discussion of XF/ZSF vs ZWJ/GJ.

[ChronoReverse]

The difference is that ZWJ essentially "bi guan" for 5 years to learn 9 Yang. Whereas Guo Jing learned had to take care of defending China and did not dedicate the kind of time to learning 9 Ying that ZWJ dedicated to 9 Yang.

Kinda like how Ouyang Feng had to seal himself away for years and years to relearn his kung fu after Wang Chongyang destroyed it. And Ouyang Feng was still able to catch up to the other Greats after the years he spent relearning his kung fu.

GJ spent at least several years between LOCH and ROCH training his internal energy quite diligently. We know he did a lot of martial arts practice because he even took the time to learn Peach Blossom Island kungfu. After this point he doesn't have to go into seclusion to continue his progress (and frankly at this point even doing that doesn't yield large gains anymore). Thus he achieved Great level internal energy and full control over it.


OYF's case is also very different since he was recovering his internal energy. Recovering internal energy is much quicker than gaining it in the first place because the significant hurdles are already done (opening up passages). Therefore it can't be directly compared.


In ZWJ's case (I think his internal should be similar levels to XF actually), the fact he even reached Great status in 5 years is because he did it with non-stop study. This allows him to reach the Great stage, not surpass it. Remember ZJB (future ZSF) studied 9 Yang under JY for longer than that and still didn't come close to Great level nor did he even finish studying more than a 3rd of it.

Even then, ZWJ wasn't even able to fully utilize his 9 Yang energy until a freak incident with the Bag fixed him up.

YTZ's icy palms shouldn't really be compared to the Xuan Ming elders. After all, YTZ's palms were based on an extremely rare creature. The Xuan Ming elder's palm also requires their internal to be greater than the opponent for the full effect.

That said, saying that ZWJ is more equipped to handle YTZ than XF may be true, but ultimately irrelevant in this discussion of XF/ZSF vs ZWJ/GJ.

100% agree.

[flamer]

It should be the other way around:

Xiao Feng > Guo Jing >= Zhang Wuji >= Zhang Sanfeng.



Xiao Feng started training advanced Shaolin art at age SEVEN. Which other protagonist started training advanced martial arts that early? No one.

Guo Jing practiced 9 Yin 20+ years longer than Zhang Wuji practiced 9 Yang.

at the new version of Proness...

I'm sure LOTS of people train from a young age in large sects like Shaolin/ Quanzhen etc. Xiao Feng's achievement is more because of his talent.

Z3F at age 100+ will surely have the most refined internal in the trilogy so Z3F > GJ is pretty much undisputed. Jin Yong also said that Z3F is the best all-rounded fighter. What's more is that Z3F realised that although ZWJ's internal cannot compare with his in terms of pureness, his cannot compare with ZWJ's in abundance. So ZWJ's internal give or take, is roughly the level of Z3F.

Surely Xiao Feng started learning BASIC Shaolin arts first and then moved on to advanced...(unless it was otherwise stated but I can't remember now).

That being said, internal at Greats' level is very close.

[PJ]

I'm sure LOTS of people train from a young age in large sects like Shaolin/ Quanzhen etc.

Yes, of course it's because of Xiao Feng's talent also, but obviously his early start only helped him.

Z3F at age 100+ will surely have the most refined internal in the trilogy so Z3F > GJ is pretty much undisputed.

Just b/c Zhang Sanfeng may have more refined internal energy doesn't mean he also has more abundant internal energy than Guo Jing. There is a difference, and by no means does it suggest that Zhang Sanfeng is better than Guo Jing all-around.

Jin Yong also said that Z3F is the best all-rounded fighter.

No he didn't. He said Zhang Sanfeng is the best martial artist. But from people like Zhang Wuji, we can see that a good martial artist != a good fighter.

What's more is that Z3F realised that although ZWJ's internal cannot compare with his in terms of pureness, his cannot compare with ZWJ's in abundance. So ZWJ's internal give or take, is roughly the level of Z3F.

Except Zhang Wuji sucks at fighting too.

Surely Xiao Feng started learning BASIC Shaolin arts first and then moved on to advanced...(unless it was otherwise stated but I can't remember now).

Yeah, but he received the best Shaolin instruction possible. The leaders of THE top 2 organizations had a vested interest in his well-being, and they were determined to invest in him. Also, it was said that Xiao Feng was an instant learner. It wouldn't have taken him long at all to reach the top Shaolin curve.

Like I said, Xiao Feng started learning advanced stuff many years earlier than Zhang Wuji, Guo Jing, Yang Guo, etc. That gives him a head start, and we know that when you start can make a big difference.

[flamer]

Yes, of course it's because of Xiao Feng's talent also, but obviously his early start only helped him.



Just b/c Zhang Sanfeng may have more refined internal energy doesn't mean he also has more abundant internal energy than Guo Jing. There is a difference, and by no means does it suggest that Zhang Sanfeng is better than Guo Jing all-around.



No he didn't. He said Zhang Sanfeng is the best martial artist. But from people like Zhang Wuji, we can see that a good martial artist != a good fighter.



Except Zhang Wuji sucks at fighting too.



Yeah, but he received the best Shaolin instruction possible. The leaders of THE top 2 organizations had a vested interest in his well-being, and they were determined to invest in him. Also, it was said that Xiao Feng was an instant learner. It wouldn't have taken him long at all to reach the top Shaolin curve.

Like I said, Xiao Feng started learning advanced stuff many years earlier than Zhang Wuji, Guo Jing, Yang Guo, etc. That gives him a head start, and we know that when you start can make a big difference.

Yea sucks at fighting but that wasn't my point. I was comparing their internal and internal only.

As i suggested earlier, I don't think ZWJ/XF reached the peak of their respective internal skill, which is supposed to be equal only at the top. But 9Yang (when not peaked) is definitely > Shaolin internal.