Olympic 2008 - Women's Gymnastics

[Ren Ying Ying]

dear rennie, i was refering to this quote

Congratulations to China for winning. That being said, if those girls are much older then twelve, then I'm a f.ucking 太监.

[warlock110]

regardless of whether He is actually 14 or 16,
so waht was that about being a "tai jian" if they were not much older than 12?

frankly, i don't care if they're really 14, 16, or 10, but frankly, people should stop trying to be (as rosie call them) "age psychics"

we're not "age psychics", we just see what we see, most of these girls are supper small and young COMPARE to the previous chinese team, you can use the example of the japanese team as a direct comparision since they're both asian, even the japanese team are bigger on average by 1 in and 5 pounds. 1 in and 5 pounds isn't much but you have to remember these girls are just 4'9 AND only weights around 77 pounds.

compare to the US team, the difference is huge, 3 more in and 30 pounds more.

I think the comparision to the US team is not as effective as the japanese team... because it's on average of 6 girls, the chances of being 1 in taller and 5 pounds heavier is actually quite big for people that size.

I'm clocking in at 160+ pounds, and by adding 5 pounds of fat i become noticably fatter, these girls are thin and fit, putting on 5 pounds of pure muscles shows for sure. Especially they're only 1/2 my weight.

[Ren Wo Xing]

dear rennie, i was refering to this quote

I know what quote you were referring to. Review my response . That was a statement indicating how certain I was that those girls couldn't be significantly older than 12'ish; 14 is reasonable, but 16 has as much chance as me being a eunuch. None.

[Ren Ying Ying]

we're not "age psychics", we just see what we see, most of these girls are supper small and young COMPARE to the previous chinese team, you can use the example of the japanese team as a direct comparision since they're both asian, even the japanese team are bigger on average by 1 in and 5 pounds. 1 in and 5 pounds isn't much but you have to remember these girls are just 4'9 AND only weights around 77 pounds.

I'm not making any absolute judgement that they can or cannot be older or younger than 16, but judging just by looks, weight, and height is just extremely insufficient.

firstly, the chinese gymnists are CHOSEN physically and genetically. secondly, there's 1.3 billion people in china compared to about 120 million in Japan. I think it'll be much easier finding super short people in china, don't you think?

the average is entirely irrelevent. the gymnists arn't suppose to be a statistical representation of the population...rather, they represent the extreme. I don't see why it is so shocking that they are all so small.

I know what quote you were referring to. Review my response . That was a statement indicating how certain I was that those girls couldn't be significantly older than 12'ish; 14 is reasonable, but 16 has as much chance as me being a eunuch. None.

frankly, 14 is significant from 12. on average, girls at 12 would look much different from girls at 14, while the physical difference is slighter between 14 and 16.

either way, if you want to stretch the interpretation of your statement, no one can force you to do otherwise.

[jadebunny9]

The Chinese team were great and they definitely deserve the gold medal. We all know they're great already, so why would age matter right? Well to me, it's a matter of principles. Rules are rules. I don't care how great you can perform, but if you're not 16, you shouldn't be competing. I'm fed up because there's just so much evidence pointing to some of the girls being underage. As the host country, China should be setting an example by playing fair and square. And it would really suck if the whole thing blows over afterwards and they'd have to give up their gold medal.


PS: Yes I can attest that Rennie was yelling out "yay" the whole time the US girls were making mistakes.

[Ren Wo Xing]

I'm not making any absolute judgement that they can or cannot be older or younger than 16, but judging just by looks, weight, and height is just extremely insufficient.

firstly, the chinese gymnists are CHOSEN physically and genetically. secondly, there's 1.3 billion people in china compared to about 120 million in Japan. I think it'll be much easier finding super short people in china, don't you think?

the average is entirely irrelevent. the gymnists arn't suppose to be a statistical representation of the population...rather, they represent the extreme. I don't see why it is so shocking that they are all so small.

They have the features of young girls, they have the physical structure of young girls, they have the voices of young girls, and at least one of them is described by the national sports director of China as being 14. And you think that people have to be 'age psychics' to think that they are younger than billed?

frankly, 14 is significant from 12. on average, girls at 12 would look much different from girls at 14, while the physical difference is slighter between 14 and 16.

either way, if you want to stretch the interpretation of your statement, no one can force you to do otherwise.

And if you want to harp on and overanalyze a rhetorical statement rather than discuss the fact that the national sports director of China describes one of the girls as being 14, then no one can force you to do otherwise either. I can't keep you from engaging in semantics instead of real discussion.

[~Dan~]

Everyone should do some researching on this. It was China who brought up the suspicious evidence. With numerous newspaper indicating and stating that one of them were not 16. Oh and yes, a director himself slipped up too.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Everyone should do some researching on this. It was China who brought up the suspicious evidence. With numerous newspaper indicating and stating that one of them were not 16. Oh and yes, a director himself slipped up too.

Exactly. This isn't some crap that is just now being thrown at China from biased parties (read: American coaches), this is something which has been repeatedly alluded to by official governmental organs (read: China Daily, a national sports director, and a provincial sports bureau] and the concerns were brought up by Chinese people.

[warlock110]

I'm not making any absolute judgement that they can or cannot be older or younger than 16, but judging just by looks, weight, and height is just extremely insufficient.

firstly, the chinese gymnists are CHOSEN physically and genetically. secondly, there's 1.3 billion people in china compared to about 120 million in Japan. I think it'll be much easier finding super short people in china, don't you think?

the average is entirely irrelevent. the gymnists arn't suppose to be a statistical representation of the population...rather, they represent the extreme. I don't see why it is so shocking that they are all so small.

I don't think it's "easier" to pick super small people, everything kind of fall into the category of diminishing returns, at a certain point it's no longer relevant in term of the pool size, 120mil is probably way passed that point of diminishing returns.

Human are very perceptive when it comes to other human simply because they see a whole lot of human all the time.... if something is out of wack (especially in cases like this where the age is wayy off compare to the physical features) people just instinctively able to tell.

[PJ]

You seriously remind me of that Chinese coach who swore he would go jump off the Beijing tower.

Some Chinese people, such as this coach, are pretty dramatic

[Ren Ying Ying]

I don't think it's "easier" to pick super small people, everything kind of fall into the category of diminishing returns, at a certain point it's no longer relevant in term of the pool size, 120mil is probably way passed that point of diminishing returns.

Human are very perceptive when it comes to other human simply because they see a whole lot of human all the time.... if something is out of wack (especially in cases like this where the age is wayy off compare to the physical features) people just instinctively able to tell.

the point is, they have a much wider choice variety to choose from. if they did pick underage girls, it wouldn't be because of their height, size, weight, etc. it would be because of their skill.

They have the features of young girls, they have the physical structure of young girls, they have the voices of young girls, and at least one of them is described by the national sports director of China as being 14. And you think that people have to be 'age psychics' to think that they are younger than billed?

many people appear younger than billed. so therefore, it is impossible for them to be the age they claim?

I could care less if they really are officially of that age or not, but judging by pure physical outlook is not very sufficient.

They have the features of young girls, they have the physical structure of young girls, they have the voices of young girls, and at least one of them is described by the national sports director of China as being 14. And you think that people have to be 'age psychics' to think that they are younger than billed?

Like I said, on an average, girls at 14 don't look that much different from when they are 16, as compared to a fairly more dramatic change from 12-14. If you were judging by their structure and voice, it is believable that they are 14 but not 16?

[Ren Wo Xing]

I could care less if they really are officially of that age or not, but judging by pure physical outlook is not very sufficient.

I note that you continue to ignore the fact that the Chinese national director of sports referred to one of the girls as being 14, as did the local Chengdu provincial bureau of sports, AND China's official English newspaper, the China Daily.

Once is chance. Twice is a coincidence. Third time is a pattern.

Btw, you sent me one of those virus-messages again You really need to have that computer scanned, dearie.

[Ren Ying Ying]

I note that you continue to ignore the fact that the Chinese national director of sports referred to one of the girls as being 14, as did the local Chengdu provincial bureau of sports, AND China's official English newspaper, the China Daily.

Once is chance. Twice is a coincidence. Third time is a pattern.

Btw, you sent me one of those virus-messages again You really need to have that computer scanned, dearie.

the point is, i couldn't care less what age they are.

i'm just disputing people who claim it is impossible for them to be 16 based only on their appearance.

[Ren Wo Xing]

the point is, i couldn't care less what age they are.

i'm just disputing people who claim it is impossible for them to be 16 based only on their appearance.

That's like saying you're disputing me when I say it's impossible for you to be a guy, based only upon your appearance. Yeah, technically speaking, nothing is 'impossible', and you could be a guy, and there is nothing that anyone can 'know for sure'. But anyone who actually employs that sort of semantical silliness in a debate thread is either trolling or just severely biased

[Ren Ying Ying]

That's like saying you're disputing me when I say it's impossible for you to be a guy, based only upon your appearance. Yeah, technically speaking, nothing is 'impossible', and you could be a guy, and there is nothing that anyone can 'know for sure'. But anyone who actually employs that sort of semantical silliness in a debate thread is either trolling or just severely biased

well, when you look at some people's backs, and if a guy has long hair, and very skinny build and wears some more effiminite clothing...it's very possible to mistaken. likewise for girls. (my friend one had a friend who actually "dated" a "guy" who turned out to be a girl! )

age is even harder to judge based on appearance. thus, the absoluteness in the statement makes some of us "irk"

[~Dan~]

Ren Yingying..listen to Ren Woxing..he is your daddy after all .

Ok, actually.. on a serious note, although using things like physical judgment, etc is not conclusive. You got to admit it does look highly possible, plus with the whole thing of it actually being mention by the Chinese. It's not like we're using JUST physical judgment, again look at the evidence mention about the director and various sources stating that her age is NOT 16.

[PJ]

Ren Yingying..listen to Ren Woxing..he is your daddy after all .

But daddy died of something he couldn't repair, so maybe princess shouldn't listen to daddy after all.

[bellamia]

I don't think anyone is making an absolute conclusion that those girls are underage. Nonetheless, based on some of the information we do know, everyone is entitled to be suspicious. And to say that we should get over it because nothing can be done about it is ridiculous. Medals can always be taken away, if it proven that these girls are underage. At the present time, I highly think they deserve the medal based on their performance. However, if it’s proven (though I highly doubt this) that they are not of legal age, then that is cheating and they don’t deserve such honor, simply because they shouldn’t be qualified in the competition to begin with.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Ren Yingying..listen to Ren Woxing..he is your daddy after all .

Ok, actually.. on a serious note, although using things like physical judgment, etc is not conclusive. You got to admit it does look highly possible, plus with the whole thing of it actually being mention by the Chinese. It's not like we're using JUST physical judgment, again look at the evidence mention about the director and various sources stating that her age is NOT 16.

Yeah, let me explain how the sequence of events went for me:

T-minus three days: Read an article about how there are doubts regarding the ages in question. Went, "Huh. That's interesting." Thought no more of it.

T-minus one hour: Ranted at my TV for not showing the girls gymnastics live, while bunny was giving me reports via MSN. Cheered as China won, even though I only knew via messenger.

Zero hour: NBC finally went to girls gymnatics. Saw the US team. Saw the Chinese girl's team. "WTF!!! Holy s.hit, they really are young!"

[~Dan~]

But daddy died of something he couldn't repair, so maybe princess shouldn't listen to daddy after all.

Hmm for some really odd reason this usage of 'daddy' at this moment reminds me of Austin Powers (Mike Myers) singing in "Daddy Wasn't There" haha..yeah weird of me. I can even remember some of the lyrics..
"Daddy wasn't there"
"To change my underwear"..ok I'll stop there.