6MSJ discussion.

[ChronoReverse]

Opinion is great but when it comes down to evidence, action rates a lot higher that even what the narrator says.

In fact, there are only two things that can override what actually happens: (1) Retcon (2) Word of God

Both of which are frowned upon in general.


As such, XF should have been impressed with 6MSJ but ultimate should also have been able to deal with it (especially since XF's own LDA also far exceeds 6MSJ's range).

[CC]

It is interesting to note that 6MSJ being the 'best skill' and 'ultimate sword qi' etc etc was only in the supposed words of MRB and XF only noted that 'it was a wondrous skill and he would face difficulty if placed in MRF's position'. Not one time was it narrated as #1.

Yet the skill which was narrated as 'boundless' and 'with unlimited potential and power' - Prajna Palm, gets rated by you guys as sub-standard compared to 6MSJ and XL18Z.

And by that same point, the times where 6MSJ gets blocked or negated is attributed to DY's inexperience. The same can be said of Prajna Palm and the 72 arts. No one of really high calibre used them (aside from possibly Sweeper Monk and JMZ who used the fake versions). OK there is XF but he never used the external form but we do see monstrous internal for a 30 yr old with no freak encounter.
__________________

[Ghaleon]

Opinion is great but when it comes down to evidence, action rates a lot higher that even what the narrator says.

In fact, there are only two things that can override what actually happens: (1) Retcon (2) Word of God

Both of which are frowned upon in general.


As such, XF should have been impressed with 6MSJ but ultimate should also have been able to deal with it (especially since XF's own LDA also far exceeds 6MSJ's range).

XF might be able to deal with it if DY can't use it properly. But as XF witnessed HIMSELF in the fight against MRF, he will have a really tough time when inspired DY uses it properly.

Plus the intention of the author is also very important. It's the "Intention of God"

[CFT]

Again, does not explain why a 'Ben' level monk could not switch from 'Shaoze' to 'Shaochong' sword. If he has enough energy to exercise 'Shaoze', why can't he simply redirect the energy to exercise a stroke from the 'Shaochong' sword? The answer has to be that he can't, and the only logical reason that he can't is because for some reason, that energy is at least temporarily 'hard-coded' to that meridian.

I'll have to go back to the Chinese because I am not convinced the translation is unambiguous.

click to show/hide spoilers

Kurong said, “If each of us were to try to individually learn the ‘Divine Sword of the Six Meridians’, it would be impossible. Simply put, our internal energy is not strong enough.

I agree that if one has enough internal energy to learn, practice and use one sword then it should be feasible to cultivate and use all the swords. To me the conclusion is that ALL swords can be executed simultaneously if one has enough internal energy to pump all 6 meridians at the same time.

[CC]

All this really shows is that later on, DY was even less capable with 6MSJ and yet XF was still worried for some reason which really makes no sense since it's blatantly clear that another internal energy attack dissipates 6MSJ just like any other.
.

What XF thought was that he would be in a difficult position if he was in MRF's shoes. MRF was forced into a dead end with his back to a tree so XF might be referring to that situation (where he has to fight within 10 feet and not throw 3-5 zhang air palms) rather than a general one. Anyway, he was feeling sad about Ah Zhu at that point and probably feeling emo.

[ChronoReverse]

What XF thought was that he would be in a difficult position if he was in MRF's shoes. MRF was forced into a dead end with his back to a tree so XF might be referring to that situation (where he has to fight within 10 feet and not throw 3-5 zhang air palms) rather than a general one. Anyway, he was feeling sad about Ah Zhu at that point and probably feeling emo.

Bah, XF should've downed a casket of wine before this scene. Then we'll see his REAL opinion of the matter

[Ghaleon]

I agree that if one has enough internal energy to learn, practice and use one sword then it should be feasible to cultivate and use all the swords. To me the conclusion is that ALL swords can be executed simultaneously if one has enough internal energy to pump all 6 meridians at the same time.

That's a sound theory. And not only more Qi, but DY would also have to develop a greater control over the Qi-circulation itself and being able to 'will' the Qi flows through the meridians on demand (will and intention). This requires lot of experience and is hard to master.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Yeah, Xiao Feng was also feeling emo-suicidal at Juxian Manor, just before he chugged a few dozen bowls of gaoliang and laid waste to the entire gathering. Dude was untouchable until he started to defend Ah Zhu.

RE CFT: If that is the case, then why was Jiumozhi so utterly shocked when he saw/thought Duan Yu was about to execute a second, different sword? Why did he think that no one who executed one of the swords could also execute a second?

These explanations just don't jive with what is said and thought. Only mine does

[pannonian]

Yeah, Xiao Feng was also feeling emo-suicidal at Juxian Manor, just before he chugged a few dozen bowls of gaoliang and laid waste to the entire gathering. Dude was untouchable until he started to defend Ah Zhu.

RE CFT: If that is the case, then why was Jiumozhi so utterly shocked when he saw/thought Duan Yu was about to execute a second, different sword? Why did he think that no one who executed one of the swords could also execute a second?

He was probably shocked because he was expecting something else. Everyone else had been using 6MSJ, but only one at a time, and when he saw Duan Yu joining the fight, he probably expected more of the same. When that wasn't the case, he was shocked. Compare with the GWM, who was also prone to thinking ahead of himself in fights, and also prone to being shocked when the reality wasn't exactly what he'd expected.

[Ren Wo Xing]

He was probably shocked because he was expecting something else. Everyone else had been using 6MSJ, but only one at a time, and when he saw Duan Yu joining the fight, he probably expected more of the same. When that wasn't the case, he was shocked. Compare with the GWM, who was also prone to thinking ahead of himself in fights, and also prone to being shocked when the reality wasn't exactly what he'd expected.

That's not the case; here's my translation:

He thought to himself, “I was just wondering how someone who could use the ‘Shaoshang Sword’ technique could also be able to use the ‘Zhongchong Sword’ technique. Looks like I was right. This kid is just bluffing.

He literally did not think it was impossible for a person who could use the 'Shaoshang' sword to immediately switch to using the 'Zhongchong' sword. This was because of his conversation with Mr. Murong, and their analysis of the 6MSJ.

[HuntingX]

I think that the only "pro" who got schooled by 6MSJ is MRF.

And, as previous discussed, MRF loses to XF in ~3 stances.

Further, most of the people praising 6MSJ are from the Murong family or friends/acquaintances.

Coincidence? Conspiracy? You decide.

[CC]

I think that the only "pro" who got schooled by 6MSJ is MRF.

And, as previous discussed, MRF loses to XF in ~3 stances.

Further, most of the people praising 6MSJ are from the Murong family or friends/acquaintances.

Coincidence? Conspiracy? You decide.

No, MRF would not lose to XF in 3 stances. When XF took him in 1 stance, it was because MRF was distracted by DY. When XF wanted to finish MRF quickly, he estimated that it would take at least 5 stances (debatable if it could be done.)

What really puts it in definite contrast is that Duan Yanqing with Yi Yang Zhi, schooled MRF really easy while DY was taking a long time with 6MSJ and much more internal (and not crippled).

And don't say DY was inexperienced because the narrator wrote that he fought with divine inspiration and the stances came out smoothly.

[flamer]

Another thing regarding DY vs MRF, is that DY was not performing 6MSJ properly until XF adviced DY to use a single sword only. After that, the fight ended in a few stances.

[CC]

Another thing regarding DY vs MRF, is that DY was not performing 6MSJ properly until XF adviced DY to use a single sword only. After that, the fight ended in a few stances.

It wasn't a few stances. Took quite some time (compare its description to the DYQ vs MRF fight or JMZ vs MRF).

[flamer]

It wasn't a few stances. Took quite some time (compare its description to the DYQ vs MRF fight or JMZ vs MRF).

I had a read of the passage again and it wasn't a few stances but it was still rather quick, probably a couple dozen stances.

[HuntingX]

To DY's credit, he WOULD beat down his dad without much difficulty.

So, at least part of the discrepancy is DY's own massive suckage (ZWJ level? Not quite).

I guess a major issue is that DY is so amazingly awful. XZ has similar problems ending fights quickly, but IMO, he's still considerably more impressive than DY.

When our ONLY user of 6MSJ is not only BAD but like... legendary bad... terribad... etc. we have to debate whether or not the power of the technique is sorta... disgraced by its amateur user.

[Han Solo]

Sorry for the late reply.

I thank everyone for their views and discussions.

I'll just like to add my 2 cents into some of the questions being raised here.

I like to think that 6MSJ deserves its profound reputation.

It's the only invisible technique in the JY world.

It is the only sword qi technique known in JY world. (I personally have doubt about DGKB's sword qi claims).

Moreover, this sword techniques are launched via the finger. This enables the practitioner to adapt and launch attacks swifter than someone who can yield a sword or saber, while covering the same attack distance.

In addition, It has a concentrated sword qi that can cut a saber.

It is long ranged- 10 feet. This is obviously shorter that the palm winds of HL18Palm or Canhe finger but none of these can have a concentrated energy to cut a metal i.e. saber.

But this is surely not the greatest strength of 6MSJ.

I would argue that the greatest strength of 6MSJ is that the various techniques of 6MSJ enables a well versed practitioner to execute multiple sword techniques that have complimentary strokes- potentially one can execute several strokes at the opponent at the same time --> thus making them unable to defend at all.

The ZMJ at the Heavenly Dragon Temple episode shows that 6MSJ can be deployed simultaneously. Elder Kurong launches 2 6MSJ attack at the same time. Even an inexperienced DY can launch multiple 6MSJ at the same time --> imagine a well versed 6MSJ practitioner launching a 6MSJ that attacks the upper and lower body at the same time, or a left and right attack or even more at the same time?

If you take a further step, and imagine that the multiple stances are launched simultaneously are those that attacks and at the same time covers your own weakness, wouldn't it be perfect? There aren't many martial arts that could potentially do this.

I'll like to argue that we never see the true potential of 6MSJ.

DY is an imcomplete master of 6MSJ- he learned it in less than ideal situation and never have a period to consolidate his techniques. This martial arts baka performances against ZMJ and MRF alas only gave us a glimpse of the true power of 6MSJ that MRB or KF was dreading.

Han Solo

[CC]

In addition, It has a concentrated sword qi that can cut a saber.

It is long ranged- 10 feet. This is obviously shorter that the palm winds of HL18Palm or Canhe finger but none of these can have a concentrated energy to cut a metal i.e. saber.

Han Solo

Ahem. Prajna Palm? Slicing the handprint from a metal cauldron with LDA? Palm Wind narrated to be as 'Sharp as a treasured sabre'?

[flamer]

P-Palm is the new OVERLOOKED martial art?

[CFT]

RE CFT: If that is the case, then why was Jiumozhi so utterly shocked when he saw/thought Duan Yu was about to execute a second, different sword? Why did he think that no one who executed one of the swords could also execute a second?

These explanations just don't jive with what is said and thought. Only mine does

Like others have said, his preconceptions about the nature of 6MSJ are wrong. Clearly!

That's not the case; here's my translation:

He literally did not think it was impossible for a person who could use the 'Shaoshang' sword to immediately switch to using the 'Zhongchong' sword. This was because of his conversation with Mr. Murong, and their analysis of the 6MSJ.

JMZ and MRB don't actually know what 6MSJ is capable of. They are theorising from their own arts and other likely incomplete descriptions of 6MSJ in use.