what's Bagua/Liangyi/Sixiang

[person135]

You guys keep saying Bagua/Liangyi/Sixiang > this and that. what are these skills and used by who?

[kyss of the sword]

bagua is the eight triagrams of daoism. liangyi is the two sides of the dao, yin and yang and how it is rotating into each other.

[Doc Kwok]

Reduced to it's most basic and general form, it is a form of metaphysics.

• From nothing (wuji) comes everything (taiji).
• Everything (taiji) can be subdivided into two parts (liangyi -> yin, yang).
• Each of these (liangyi) can in turn be divided in two (sixiang)
  
  • Yin -> taiyin, shaoyang
  • Yang -> shaoyin, taiyang
• Each of these (sixiang) can in turn be divided into two (bagua)
  
  • Taiyin -> kun, gen
  • Shaoyang -> kan, xun
  • Shaoyin -> zhen, li
  • Taiyang -> dui, quan

This can be used to categorise pretty much anything. e.g.

• Light
  
  • Bright -> yang, dark -> yin
  • Blazing sunlight -> taiyang, in the shade -> shaoyin, unlit room -> shaoyang, pitch darkness -> taiyin
• Humans
  
  • Male -> yang, female -> yin
  • Gung-ho soldiers -> taiyang, wimpy scholars -> shaoyin, Amazon warriors -> shaoyang, damsels in distress -> taiyin

... and so on. In a nutshell, the concept is saying:

1. There are two sides to every coin
2. There are shades of grey between black and white

[tape]

Very informative, and enlightening.

[CFT]

Great post Doc Kwok.

[person135]

thanks for that but I'm talking about the sword play things that people here mention, like liang yi sword play being more powerful than 9ying or QKDNY or somehting I forgot

[tape]

The Kunlun sect and another sect...I forget which one exactly used sword arts based on these principles and almost killed Wuji on Brightness Peak. These fighters weren't that skillful either, but using reverse and forward swordplays (2 people reverse 2 people forward) they created a formation that was incredible. So in the hands of people that are truly great I'd imagine the sword art would be really powerful.

It was also here where it was mentioned that Qian Kun and other regional kungfus couldn't match the profoundness of Central Plain martial arts based on these theories.

[jadebunny9]

Wimpy scholars, haha.

I am also interested in Bagua as a form of martial arts. That's what Aang uses in Avatar. =D

[CFT]

It was KunLun and Huashan. Their respective liangyi swordplay and reverse-liangyi sabreplay covered each other's respective flaws.

[person135]

was it at JY quote or did people here just deduce that BaGua + Liang Yi > Qian Kun.

If these theories are so potent, how come in all these years there never was anyone who was so powerful using these skills?

[CFT]

It was a JY (narrator) quote. I think it was the first time they had combined the orthodox and reverse liangyi sword/sabreplays. But it was a general comment that the central plains martial arts were superior to the MAs coming out of other locations.

[person135]

that might be true, but if there were no supreme skills developed using Liangyi+Bagua, then you really can't say those Liangyi+Bagua is better than say QKDNY.

True the theory might be better than another one, but until you develop a skill that beats a skill using another theory, you can only say the theory is better than the other theory and not the theory is better than the martial art, which I believe some people said in my QKDNY post.

[CFT]

Again, the narrator was very explicit about the superiority of Central Plains martial arts. The reason why ZWJ was better in practice was because he could use QKDNY at 100% whereas the KunLun and Huashan people would only use 20-30% of their respective arts.

[ChronoReverse]

1. There are two sides to every coin
2. There are shades of grey between black and white

One more thing I feel is important to add to that list is that even within the absolute extremes there is still the opposite. At the center of yin is yang and within yang is yin for instance. One exists with the other.

[CFT]

One more thing I feel is important to add to that list is that even within the absolute extremes there is still the opposite. At the center of yin is yang and within yang is yin for instance. One exists with the other.

I think that is the shaoyin, shaoyang.

[person135]

Again, the narrator was very explicit about the superiority of Central Plains martial arts. The reason why ZWJ was better in practice was because he could use QKDNY at 100% whereas the KunLun and Huashan people would only use 20-30% of their respective arts.

or maybe there just wasn't a skill that could utilize the theory to a full extent, in which case, it is still false to say 9Yin > QK because Bagua (which is a theory) > QK (an actual skill), and that 9yin is better than Bagua.

You can't compare a theory to a skill.

[PJ]

or maybe there just wasn't a skill that could utilize the theory to a full extent, in which case, it is still false to say 9Yin > QK because Bagua (which is a theory) > QK (an actual skill), and that 9yin is better than Bagua.

You can't compare a theory to a skill.

The Liangyi swordplay employed by Huashan/Kunlun members were in fact superior to Qiankun Danuoyi, and this was stated by Jin Yong, who tells us those people only mastered a small fraction of those particular skills, and if they were to master the arts, they would have KO'ed Zhang Wuji quickly.

[tape]

I think that is the shaoyin, shaoyang.

Yeah from the explanation it seems tai = yang more or less and shao = yin more or less. So Shaoyin = extreme yin while shaoyang = yin within yang. Same with taiyin taiyang.

[CFT]

Yeah from the explanation it seems tai = yang more or less and shao = yin more or less. So Shaoyin = extreme yin while shaoyang = yin within yang. Same with taiyin taiyang.

No. I think the shaoyin is the yin within yang (taiyang), and shaoyang is the yang within yin (taiyin)