Could Teen San Tung Lo have *forced* Kiu Fung to teach her Hong Lung 28 Palms?

[Ken Cheng]

Here's an (hopefully) interesting DGSD hypothetical situation.

As we know, the Siu Yiu Sect coveted the great martial arts of the world, and had almost all of them in written form hidden away at their secret stash under Mt. Mo Leung. Among the coveted items that were missing, however, were the Beggar's Union's Hong Lung 28 Palms and the Dali Deun Royal Family's 1 Yeung Finger Technique.

Because the Hong Lung 28 Palms was not, during the DGSD era, written into a manual, the only way that a Siu Yiu Sect Elder...say Teen San Tung Lo...could get it was to capture Kiu Fung, subdue him, and force him to teach it to her.

Now think about that. Capturing Kiu Fung. Subduing him. Forcing him to do something against his will. Three things that are impossible for most people.

Teen San Tung Lo, however, was definitely not "most people."

With her martial arts, could Teen San Tung Lo capture and/or subdue Kiu Fung?

Knowing Kiu Fung's character, is there anything Teen San Tung Lo could do to him to force him to give up the secrets of Hong Lung 28 Palms? We know Kiu Fung does not fear death, but the Life Death Talisman of Ling Tsau Palace was a form of torment far worse than death. Could Kiu Fung be compelled to giving up the Hong Lung 28 Palms, or will Teen San Tung Lo find herself up against a powerful and enraged foe that even she would be unable to contain?

[AnhHung]

XF would commit suicide I guess. The key here is to capture someone he love. Ah Chi (spelling?) is the most obvious choice, but I think that would be a mistake. XF viewed her as his wife and wouldnt hesitate much in sacrifice both of them for the better cause. But if you take his sister in law (after Ah Chi death), then I think XF might give in, because he could never sacrifice her.

[flamer]

First you have to CAPTURE him. I see no other way than to drug him.

[CC]

A bit OT but it was never made very clear if the stash at the cavern was the property/doing of WYZ and LQS or it was started/inherited from an earlier time (e.g. their teacher). I am not even sure if TSTL was aware of that library.

[AnhHung]

First you have to CAPTURE him. I see no other way than to drug him.

I guess it depends where you rank the CareFree sect elders compare to XF.

[flamer]

Even if we believe TSTL is 1.5-1.7 times as good as XF (already at the limits of my belief), XF can always escape capture. Running away is always so much easier than fighting.

[AnhHung]

Even if we believe TSTL is 1.5-1.7 times as good as XF (already at the limits of my belief), XF can always escape capture. Running away is always so much easier than fighting.

If TSTL < 2xXF, then I agree that he could escape. But I always got the impression here in this forum that she is much more powerful. I havent made up my mind yet because im still reading DSGS.

[Ahoxan]

I also doubt that TSTL is so much better than Qiao Feng. I suppose she may be better by a small margin, but that is rather debatable. She was about equal to her shi-mei, who was only slightly better than Zhu-Shu (my guess from the adaptation). Zhu-Shu was only slightly better than the poisoner betrayer of the Care-Free sect at the battle at Shaolin temple, who was inferior to Qiao Feng by a rather large margin.

Qiao Feng doesn't seem to have the "run away to fight another day" mindset. At the battle at JuXian Mansion, he was prepared to die once he decided not to kill the Shaolin priest XuanJu. He was injured before that only because he was protecting Ah-Zhu and was only using one arm.

[flamer]

I don't think anyone believes TSTL is 2x level of Xiao Feng. Imagine TSTL fighting against 2 Xiao Fengs. I can't imagine anyone in that picture other than SM.

[Banh Mi]

I don't see extortion working on a guy like XF, I would see him killing himself or something, and asking DY to one day rescue whoever's been held ransom, or something to that effect.

On the other hand, XF left the beggar clan without so much as farewell card. Clearly for 18palms to be passed on through the ages, someone else must already know it.

I think TSTL would have a much easier time catching that guy.

[PJ]

If TSTL < 2xXF, then I agree that he could escape. But I always got the impression here in this forum that she is much more powerful. I havent made up my mind yet because im still reading DSGS.

I personally don't think Tianshan Tonglao is so much superior to Xiao Feng that she >= 2x of Xiao Feng. Her most famed feat is perhaps being able to kill a first class fighter in one stance; Xiao Feng and his Elite-mates can also do that to some extent. IMO Tianshan Tonglao is probably around 1.5x of Xiao Feng's power.

[person135]

no way TSTL can be > XF. In fact, TSTL is probably < XF. Where does it indicate that she, or the other XY elders are any better?

XF isn't exactly in the same level as the "first-class" fighters that she's famed to kill.

[PJ]

no way TSTL can be > XF. In fact, TSTL is probably < XF.

What evidence is your assumption based on?

[Exodus]

no way tstl can capture XF he is just too powerful. we are not talking about ZWJ here

[person135]

what evidence is your claim that tstl > XF based on?

[PJ]

what evidence is your claim that tstl > XF based on?

I asked you first. I'm interested in your logic, so please do spill the beans.

Also, have youn read DGSD (the novel)?

[person135]

yes i have a long time ago. now i mostly have memories of the tv series. I'm basing my statement on personal judgement, which is open to discussion. Likewise, if you cannot back up your statement, no point then.

why not just give your logic if you have some? don't be so stubborn. if you did, it might save some trouble.

[PJ]

yes i have a long time ago. now i mostly have memories of the tv series. I'm basing my statement on personal judgement, which is open to discussion. Likewise, if you cannot back up your statement, no point then.

why not just give your logic if you have some? don't be so stubborn. if you did, it might save some trouble.

I will present my case, drawing from evidence from the novel, for why I believe the Xiaoyao Pai elders can only be superior to Xiao Feng, but it's going to be long and will take some time to assemble. I haven't quite got the time yet. But I will post it when I can manage to pull it together

[person135]

it's just that people keep saying XY elders > XF without any evidence

[PJ]

it's just that people keep saying XY elders > XF without any evidence

The reasons we don't always reference the evidence on-the-fly are:

1. The assumption is well established on the forum (doesn't mean it shouldn't be challenged). Most of us are convinced by the God-like descriptions of Xiaoyao Pai elders in the novel, which are much more impressive than that of Xiao Feng, Murong Bo, Xiao Yuanshan.

2. It's been discussed many times in the past. We don't feel like repeating ourselves. You can try finding these discussions, I assure you they exist.