Xuzhu vs Sweeper Monk - inner energy Question

[PJ]

But Guan Yin was probably still 1-2 levels below that of God. How many stances can Sweeper Monk last against The God of God, The God of God, GOD GOD... God?

[Ahoxan]

But Guan Yin was probably still 1-2 levels below that of God. How many stances can Sweeper Monk last against The God of God, The God of God, GOD GOD... God?

Judeo/Christian is the only belief with an omnipotent "GOD".

All others can be put into the Wuxia universe where they can benefit from Beimeing Da Fa (Northern Darkness MA). Guan Yin in the guise of Sweeper Monk wouldn't last very long against an omnipotent deity. He even got hit by Qiao Feng.

Of course, Qiao Feng died at the end of DGSD... and we later find out in the epi-epi-epilogue that he was in fact the re-incarnation of Mars, the God of War. That's why he was so invincible on the battle field.

He was bored & careless after Christianity sucked away most of his worshipers from the Mediterranean region... so he got tricked by Loki into a re-incarnation in Jin-Yong's Wuxia universe.

[PJ]

In the past, Xiao Feng has indeed been compared to Yesu (English: Jesus). So Maybe....

[Dennis Chen]

Suicide is a sin. Xiao Feng can't be Jesus.

[Ahoxan]

Suicide is a sin. Xiao Feng can't be Jesus.

But Jesus did suicide...
If you define suicide as willful and deliberate action to allow death when you can save yourself. )

[ChronoReverse]

And therefore, if I take a bullet for you, I'd be committing suicide.

You can define anything the way you want, but general consensus would be that I didn't commit suicide in that situation.

[Ahoxan]

And therefore, if I take a bullet for you, I'd be committing suicide.

You can define anything the way you want, but general consensus would be that I didn't commit suicide in that situation.

Then Qiao Feng's death to resolve conflicting loyalties toward his Quidan race & Blood brother with loyalties toward Song & the people who raised him... saving millions of lives from death and the miseries of war... would not be considered suicide either.

Intercepting a bullet and receiving sword stabs would are essentially the same... one's own actions leading to death... in the interest of saving others.

Saving one life from a bullet... Saving millions of lives from war and miseries... Paying the price for the sins of all mankind...
All these are actions that leads to death... how these actions are evaluated are left to the individuals... just as the decision to believe that Jesus is the Son of God & accept his intercession is left to each individual.

[ChronoReverse]

XF went ahead and killed himself to do it. The act actually had no guarantee to do anything except perhaps appeal to the emotions of those around him. But more importantly, he did himself in with his own hands.

Taking a bullet isn't the same thing. It has a direct effect in that the bullet is stopped. Taking someone elses sin (literally) and destroying it with your own death thus has a direct effect. More importantly, the killing wasn't self-inflicted.


Self-inflicted death is the normal definition of suicide. You can wax poetic about how it's "like" suicide to not save yourself, but it's fundamentally different.

[person135]

And therefore, if I take a bullet for you, I'd be committing suicide.

You can define anything the way you want, but general consensus would be that I didn't commit suicide in that situation.

actually that can be considered suicide...

can someone give me some proof on how the XY elders are only below SM?

[Dennis Chen]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suicide

[Ahoxan]

A common Wuxia term used by Jin-Yong is "borrowing another's knife to kill".

"Suicide By Police" is a fairly well known phenomena is today's society... referring to the act of attacking police officers and leaving them no choice but to kill the attacker.

IMHO... without depending on the dictionary's strict definition. "Suicide" is actions leading to death... whether directly by one's own hands or using others' hands.

[dracnom]

Not true still Xiao Feng... We have no proof that it's conscious or automatic. JMZ's sneak attack clearly showed that. Either SM held the internal energy wall around him as he walked and talked or the wall came on spontaneously when encountering JMZ's attack. I'm inclined to think it's the second one.

If Xuzhu was exerting all or majority of his internal energy into some attack, would the Beiming protection still be there? I doubt it. It will be just like ZWJ's 9 Yang's fail protection when energy is used elsewhere.

I believe that SM knew of JMZ's sneak attack, he is able to identify JMZ's background history. Also SM's one hit KO against MRB shows that his martial arts is at an unprecedented level.

As i mentioned, I believe that internal energy wall that SM creates is somewhat like 'Diamond Armor Invincible Body' where if you lose concentration, it won't work. And thus, whilst SM was attacking XYS, SM couldn't raise the energy wall and had to use feint attacks to lessen XF's two palm power into one.

[flamer]

I believe that SM knew of JMZ's sneak attack, he is able to identify JMZ's background history. Also SM's one hit KO against MRB shows that his martial arts is at an unprecedented level.

...

As i mentioned, I believe that internal energy wall that SM creates is somewhat like 'Diamond Armor Invincible Body' where if you lose concentration, it won't work. And thus, whilst SM was attacking XYS, SM couldn't raise the energy wall and had to use feint attacks to lessen XF's two palm power into one.

So you reckon SM was concentrating on maintaining an internal energy barrier while lecturing. I find that so hard to believe. Especially compared to internal energy diversion theory. Remember Diamond Body requires the user to hold their breath and they cannot speak. Yeah yeah SM could be using a superior version of Diamond Body but that's stretching it. No one claims Beiming Zhenqi or 9 Yang as a superior version of Diamond Body just because it gives protection while the user can speak. They are just different things.

[dracnom]

...

So you reckon SM was concentrating on maintaining an internal energy barrier while lecturing. I find that so hard to believe. Especially compared to internal energy diversion theory. Remember Diamond Body requires the user to hold their breath and they cannot speak. Yeah yeah SM could be using a superior version of Diamond Body but that's stretching it. No one claims Beiming Zhenqi or 9 Yang as a superior version of Diamond Body just because it gives protection while the user can speak. They are just different things.

原来鸠摩智越听越不服，心道：“你说少林派七十二项绝技不能学，我不是已经都学会了？怎么又没有筋脉齐断， 成为废人？”双手拢在衣袖之中，暗暗使用“无相劫指”，神不知、鬼不觉的向那老僧弹去，不料指力甫及那老僧 身前三尺之外，便似遇上了一层柔软之极，却又坚硬之极的屏障，嗤嗤几声响，指力便散得无形无踪，却也并不反 弹而回。鸠摩智大吃一惊，心道：“这老僧果然有些鬼门道，并非大言唬人！”

那老僧恍如不知

The first time he raises the barrier, he wasn't talking.

The second time was when XF and MRF were attacking each other, he stepped forward to stop them.

The third time, when SM 'killed*' MRB then MRF attacked him, thereby raising his chi wall and rebounding MRF's attack. (*just momentarily stopped their breathing and heartbeat)

[flamer]

What does 那老僧恍如不知 show? To me, it just shows he had no clear signs of knowing the attack was coming. Obviously SM knows of the attack when it approached him and pretended it didn't happen.

There is no evidence if SM was talking or not the precise moment JMZ attacked. And honestly that doesn't make a difference or matters at all.

SM's barrier can work automatically or specifically, just like ZWJ's 9 Yang. I don't see how you can view this as some special skill like Diamond Body requiring concentration and no-talk. Look at my previous 9 Yang/ Beiming example.

[dracnom]

What does 那老僧恍如不知 show? To me, it just shows he had no clear signs of knowing the attack was coming. Obviously SM knows of the attack when it approached him and pretended it didn't happen.

You just contradicted yourself. 那老僧恍如不知 means he acted as if he didn't know. Thereby he already knew of the sneak attack and was able to tell it was based upon 'xiao wu xiang gong'.

There is no evidence if SM was talking or not the precise moment JMZ attacked. And honestly that doesn't make a difference or matters at all.

I agree that talking doesn't matter so much.

SM's barrier can work automatically or specifically, just like ZWJ's 9 Yang. I don't see how you can view this as some special skill like Diamond Body requiring concentration and no-talk. Look at my previous 9 Yang/ Beiming example.

I'm just saying it doesn't work automatically, else how would XF's attack hit him or why did SM need to feint an attack with his right hand to draw away XF's left palm.

[flamer]

You just contradicted yourself. 那老僧恍如不知 means he acted as if he didn't know. Thereby he already knew of the sneak attack and was able to tell it was based upon 'xiao wu xiang gong'.

恍如不知 doesn't mean pretending not to know, it means 'appearing not to notice'. It doesn't mean he knows it beforehand or not. SM knows of the sneak attack for sure AFTER it has hit his wall.

I'm just saying it doesn't work automatically, else how would XF's attack hit him or why did SM need to feint an attack with his right hand to draw away XF's left palm.

Errrr how else? Maybe his internal energy was diverted elsewhere? Just like every other instance when auto protections don't work? But you're saying SM didn't raise the barrier because he was... not concentrated or something. Please, XF's attack was a lot more obvious than JMZ's, I'm sure you agree. SM was clearly UNABLE to raise that same barrier, automatic or not. And the only reason why he wouldn't be ABLE to raise that barrier would be internal energy.

[person135]

or maybe XL28Z is just unmatched in power, especially coming from XF

and btw, appeared not to notice can imply that you are pretending not to notice

[flamer]

or maybe XL28Z is just unmatched in power, especially coming from XF

and btw, appeared not to notice can imply that you are pretending not to notice

Yet SM managed to stop the XL28Z by closing his palms.

Of course, but as I said, it certainly does not show SM did know of the incoming attack. But really, it makes no difference since SM clearly knew of the XF attack and did not raise his barrier.

[K2Grey]

So I saw this one interesting reference from Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angulimala :

Villagers petitioned the king of Kosala, who vowed to hunt down Angulimala. Fearing for her son's life, Angulimala's mother set out to find him and warn him of the king's intent. The Buddha perceived with his "divine eye" (faculty of clairvoyance) that Angulimala had slain 999 victims, and was desperately seeking a thousandth. If the Buddha encountered Angulimala that day, he would become a monk and subsequently attain Nirvana. If Angulimala encountered his mother instead, he would slay her as his thousandth victim and fall into hell for millennia as a matricide.

The Buddha set off to intercept Angulimala, despite being warned by the people of the village in which he was staying. On the road through the forest of Kosala, Angulimala first saw his mother who came to warn him of the impending arrival of the kings' army. Angulimala, after some deliberation, decided to make her his 1000th victim. But then when Buddha also arrived, he chose to kill him instead. He drew his sword, and started running towards the Buddha. But although Angulimala was running as fast as he could, he couldn't catch up with the Buddha who was walking calmly. "The Blessed One willed a feat of psychic power such that Angulimala, though running with all his might, could not catch up with the Blessed One walking at normal pace" (MN 86, translation from Thanissaro Bhikku). This bewildered Angulimala so much that he called to the Buddha to stop. The Buddha said that he himself had already stopped, and that it was Angulimala who should stop. Angulimala asked for further explanation, after which the Buddha said that he had stopped harming living beings, and that Angulimala was still harming and hurting living beings. After hearing this, Angulimala changed his ways, vowed to cease his life as a brigand and joined the Buddhist order.

So Angulimala was running at his maximum speed but he could not catch up with the Buddha, who was walking at a normal pace. It seemed an interesting parallel with Xiao Feng chasing after Sweeps at max speed while Sweeper Monk did not appear to be moving especially fast yet the distance between them remained constant and I'm sure it was intentional on JY's part.