Who's the greatest villain amongst the JY novels?1

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

1. AYF= Killing all of Guo Jing's masters and attempted to kill GJ's friends several times, broke his promises with Guo Jing a lot of times
2. Golden Wheel Monk- a powerful villain starting from beginning to end
3. Cheng Kun- raped his student's wife and proceeded on killing his whole family, lied to his master who sacrificed his life for him
4. MRF- tried to do anything from dumping his cousin, killing his closest friends, and becoming part of another family in order to be emperor
5. YBQ- lied to his beloved student and daughter for Bixie Swordplay, not to mention that his hypocrisy managed to deceive the readers till the last few chapters, which is pretty scary imo.

To me, YBQ takes the cake, at least AYF, GWM, Chengkun, MRF self admitted their ambitions and stuff while YBQ's just a hypocrite with a f***-up'ed personality. YBQ broke his own leg to deceive ZNC, waited till the announcement of the unification to defeat ZNC, while giving the fake Bixie Swordplay to ZNC via his spy

His deception, hypocrisy, ambition patience and strategic thinking surpass the other 4 by a margin. He's creeped the hell outta me. Too bad he was born in a plot-dependent wuxia fiction, he would've been a great politician imo.

[forgot password]

Must be Cheng Kun. This dude committed the worst sins (adultery, rape, mass murder, child murder) and almost laid waste to the entire Ming sect.

[PJ]

Too bad he was born in a plot-dependent wuxia fiction, he would've been a great politician imo.

It is said that Jin Yong wrote SPW to criticize the Cultural Revolution, and the book was banned in China initially.

[smurf120]

I believe Cheng Kun before YBQ because he did so many horrible things and tried to start a wulin world war. YBQ was just really mean to LHC and LPZ and acted like a hypocrite.

AYF was pretty focused on being #1 which meant killing people but he didn't do anything particularly underhanded apart from killing the GN7H.

GWM was also pretty focused on winning and didn't really do all out war mongering/planning like CK.

MRF ended up being a weak villain because nothing he did came close to working - pitiful actually.

[tape]

OYF killed the 7 freaks mainly (perhaps partially) because he believed Guo Jing + Huang Rong killed Ouyang Ke. He further framed Huang Yaoshi for the same reason, and I really don't think his actions were too bad considering he is a villain after all. We even see heroes using underhanded tactics to get vengeance if they know they can't do it any other way.

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

It is said that Jin Yong wrote SPW to criticize the Cultural Revolution, and the book was banned in China initially.

I think Deer Cauldron has more allusion to the cultural revolution, with leader Hung killing his old comrades and promoting young members to ranks

[PJ]

Perhaps so, since DOMD was written right after SPW and some of the critical themes could have lingered on.

Hong Antong was pretty useless though; I thought his wife-worshiping was comical. The power struggles in SPW are much more intricate.

[Doc Kwok]

1. AYF= Killing all of Guo Jing's masters and attempted to kill GJ's friends several times, broke his promises with Guo Jing a lot of times

Did he actually break any promises though? It has been a while since I read the novel, but as I recall, he was very careful not to make any explicit promises that he didn't intend to keep. Implicit promises were fair game though.

[Dirt]

Qiu Qianren. Killing a baby. A BABY!

[tape]

I'm of the camp that doesn't think a baby is any more special than anyone else's life. Killing a righteous man is more of a sin than killing a baby to me.

[pannonian]

Did he actually break any promises though? It has been a while since I read the novel, but as I recall, he was very careful not to make any explicit promises that he didn't intend to keep. Implicit promises were fair game though.

He was going to force Huang Rong to explain 9 yin to him when Guo Jing arrived, and he left in shame. Dunno about Murong Fu, but of the other three, Ouyang Feng was the only one to show casual cruelty to a random civilian, killing a teacher and gifting his head to Huang Yaoshi on a whim. Most other characters confine their violence to other members of wulin or civilians who have crossed them in some way.

[Banh Mi]

He was going to force Huang Rong to explain 9 yin to him when Guo Jing arrived, and he left in shame. Dunno about Murong Fu, but of the other three, Ouyang Feng was the only one to show casual cruelty to a random civilian, killing a teacher and gifting his head to Huang Yaoshi on a whim. Most other characters confine their violence to other members of wulin or civilians who have crossed them in some way.

I don't think killing random civilians on a whim makes OYF any worse than the others, he's just more easily amused. I'd give props to YBQ, nothing is sacred to him, there's nothing he won't sacrifice not family, not students, not even erections.

[PJ]

Out of the choices given, Ouyang Feng is by far the most interesting to me. Cheng Kun might have been a great schemer, but his combat records suck, and he is a crappy fighter IMO. Obviously, so is GWM. As for Murong Fu, he is excessively proud and fairly useless throughout the novel, constantly failing to meet expectations (both from ppl in the novel and readers). Yue Buqun is a professional schemer and backstabber who is really scary.

Even though I think Ouyang Feng should definitely rot in hell for his crimes against humanity, I think now I can understand why Laviathan once said that Ouyang Feng possessed an 'honorable' aura.

[bliss]

5. YBQ- lied to his beloved student and daughter for Bixie Swordplay, not to mention that his hypocrisy managed to deceive the readers till the last few chapters, which is pretty scary imo.

I'm not sure how true this is. It seemed to be pretty widely known throughout wulin that Yue Buqun was a hypocrite acting under the false pretense of his "Gentleman Sword" title. Fang Zheng and Chong Xu clearly saw through his facade and warned Linghu Chong about him. Ren Woxing and Xiang Wentian openly criticized him for being a hypocrite. His students were probably the only ones who truly believed he was an honorable man.

[PJ]

In fact, the character of Yue Buqun was probably modeled after Qi Changfa from "A Deadly Secret," Yue being the more fleshed out, as Qi didn't have much screen time in his short novel.

Both were professional schemers, gentleman fakers, student- and family- betrayers, and many high level exponents knew of their true face, but their students did not.

[Bei Rongkun]

Cheng Kun should be greatest villain as he is strong in skill and smart. But he also did not do his sins openly and people less know how bad he is.

Ou yang feng is having greatest reputation as bad guy as he is name 'Western Poison'.

Golden Monks perhaps only bad due to his political afiliation to Mongol.

Yue Buqun is bad in second half of the book and in fact do his evil to certain people only. and he is suffering multiple envyness to LHC.

[junzi]

It seemed to be pretty widely known throughout wulin that Yue Buqun was a hypocrite acting under the false pretense of his "Gentleman Sword" title. Fang Zheng and Chong Xu clearly saw through his facade and warned Linghu Chong about him. Ren Woxing and Xiang Wentian openly criticized him for being a hypocrite. His students were probably the only ones who truly believed he was an honorable man.

I didn't realize this was the case (relevant quotes from the novel please? ) - I thought his true colours were only revealed at the end!

[ChronoReverse]

I took it that only RWX was really aware of the true nature of YBQ while the rest of higher ups gradually grew more aware (at different degrees) through the novel. The "hyprocrite" title seemed more a sour grapes sort of name to me for the start of the novel.

[Ren Wo Xing]

ChronoReverse is correct; in fact, it was stated in the novel that Fang Zheng and Chongxu were 'relieved' that Yue Buqun became the leader of the 5 Swords Sect instead of Zuo Lengchan, since he was a well known gentleman. They simply didn't see him as perfect and totally unambitious (and hence their discussion w/LHC). Only Ren Woxing, honestly, seemed to see YBQ for what he was.

[AnhHung]

Qiu Qianren. Killing a baby. A BABY!

Chen Kun:
-A baby; been there, done that, moved on.

At least QQR had problems dealing with guilt. CK had no remorse.