Do you think we should have a thread here about what we don't like about each other?

[Lucre]

It's just asking for disaster.

Anyone who actually agree to this is obviously enjoying too much virtual flames.

Tsktsk....I'll resist the urge to say "YES GO AHEAD"

*gee, must run to the confessional now.*

[LuNaR]

i vote yes

[Dirt]

No. This is what PM's are for.

[Ken Cheng]

No. This is what PM's are for.

No, not really. The problem with the Private Messages is # 1). most people won't use them that way and # 2). because of their private nature, they solve nothing for the community as a whole. To use an international analogy, what good would it do for Libya and Israel to privately, secretly make peace if the rest of the Middle East isn't involved and doesn't know about it? The objective is for everyone to hopefully learn something and overcome previously insurmountable communication barriers.

In some cases, it's not just a case of one-on-one conflict between two individuals who otherwise get along with everyone else. It's more a matter of one individual having problems with multiple individuals, or multiple individuals having a problem (the same problem) with one particular individual. *These* are the problems that the proposed thread aims to deal with.

Sometimes, it takes a village...which is one of the reasons why this process is beginning with a poll to ask if it's a feasible idea in the first place. If not, I could have just posted the thread directly.

[Ken Cheng]

Also, I see many comments here, but only eight votes. Remember: at the end of the month, it will be the votes that count. If, at the end of the month, a hundred people *say* they don't like the idea, but more people actually *vote* to do it than vote against it, we're going by the votes, not the comments.

So don't let just your comments do the talking; use the poll.

[ByTmE]

This is neat and interesting. I expressed this when Jaded made her Confessionals thread. I must confess, I do have some apprehensions. I'm in agreement with the "con" opinions that have been expressed. That is, the potential for negative backlash. I think that it can be curbed if the participants are mature adults that are really looking for honest opinions and take comments as constructive criticism. But...people are never really as tolerant as they think they are, myself included.

Now, I must ask myself, "Do I really want to know what my fellow spnceters think of me?" and "How would it be useful for me to know their opinions?" The second one is not that hard to answer: sometimes the manner in which we express ourselves on the forum in writing is not really indicative of who we are in life outside of Spcnet. For some, it may be intentional...for others it's because we didn't know we were doing it. In that respect, I would like to know.

As for the first question...well...

I must ponder this some more...possibly seek advice from my spiritual guide...haha

[Dirt]

I think there needs to be balance in order for it to work. Say 1 thing you don't like and say 1 thing you do. Otherwise, it will devolved into a name calling fest in no time flat.

[Lucre]

Also, I see many comments here, but only eight votes. Remember: at the end of the month, it will be the votes that count. If, at the end of the month, a hundred people *say* they don't like the idea, but more people actually *vote* to do it than vote against it, we're going by the votes, not the comments.

So don't let just your comments do the talking; use the poll.

i shall only exercise my vote if it looks like the 'yes-s' are catching up.

[kidd]

People who support this really must ask themselves if they can deal with the negative comments if it's directed at them.

It's very tempting to think of the opportunity to voice your displeasure on someone and not to worry about backlash and also very tempting to see what other forumers think of one another.

But, if the one being criticised is you, will you be able to take it graciously and not start wanting to be defensive and lost sleep over it?

Yeah, we can all say "lets be civilised and mature and end any displeasure on this thread". But, humans are ruled by emotions.

I think there needs to be balance in order for it to work. Say 1 thing you don't like and say 1 thing you do. Otherwise, it will devolved into a name calling fest in no time flat.

Agree, it would be better this way.

Anyway, I haven't vote yet and does not plan to vote because I'm sitting on the fence. On one hand, I'm curious to see how this thread will turn out, but, on the other hand, I don't want disaster to happen.

[wkeej]

I vote for "no". What's we are discussing will be opinions. Moreover, it will be those who dislike who you will be talking. Take a simple example.

Suppose I say I dislike zwj. There will be those who dislike this and soon they will be bombing this.

Suppose I say I like zwj. There will be a different group who dislike this and soon they will be bombing this.

Ken, I can read that you want such an idea. Why not for a trial run, you start a thread "What you do not like about me = Ken".

[Ken Cheng]

I vote for "no". What's we are discussing will be opinions. Moreover, it will be those who dislike who you will be talking. Take a simple example.

Suppose I say I dislike zwj. There will be those who dislike this and soon they will be bombing this.

Suppose I say I like zwj. There will be a different group who dislike this and soon they will be bombing this.

Ken, I can read that you want such an idea. Why not for a trial run, you start a thread "What you do not like about me = Ken".

I started this thread, but I myself am ambivalent.

On the one hand, it might be the one thing that can solve a number of problems that have been brewing here for years...but it's hazardous. It's one of those situations that can solve many of our problems...or start a set of new ones. There's no guarantee either way. Many devices would be installed into it to minimize the chances of things going wrong, but those devices aren't foolproof.

Some part of me is eager to see the results, but another part of me is also terrified of what this could trigger.

And no, it absolutely CANNOT start with a thread about me. First, it's not for or against any one member, and second, I have enough trouble with people who like to accuse me of being an "attention-wh*re" (which would likely be a subject for discussion in the proposed thread if we ever actually do it).

[Suet Seung]

Ken,

What festering or harboring problems do people have here with each other? If these problems aren't strong enough to make them PM each other, what makes you think they'll be motivated enough to hash it out in public?

[Ken Cheng]

Ken,

What festering or harboring problems do people have here with each other? If these problems aren't strong enough to make them PM each other, what makes you think they'll be motivated enough to hash it out in public?

The public glare might compel people to talk where they would not in private; people might feel more motivated to respond to criticisms in public. Private Messages are easily ignored. Public comments - not so much.

Conversely, the public spotlight might also compel them to be more measured in their remarks than they would be in private.

There are certain crucial dynamics that would be attainable only by a public discussion and, in the future, to make any resolutions enforceable by public opinion. The problem with private discussion is that if either party chooses to not honor whatever resolution or agreements might be established, there's absolute deniability that any agreement was ever reached, or that the discussion even took place.

[Ken Cheng]

What festering or harboring problems do people have here with each other?

I can't answer this question here and now because doing so would essentially start the proposed discussion that we have not decided to proceed on.

Nothing will be decided until the end of September. Whether we do it or not, there's no RUSH to do it. Even if we decide to do it, another month might be spent preparing the rules and organization before the discussion actually begins.

[remember_Cedric]

The public glare might compel people to talk where they would not in private; people might feel more motivated to respond to criticisms in public. Private Messages are easily ignored. Public comments - not so much.

Conversely, the public spotlight might also compel them to be more measured in their remarks than they would be in private.

There are certain crucial dynamics that would be attainable only by a public discussion and, in the future, to make any resolutions enforceable by public opinion. The problem with private discussion is that if either party chooses to not honor whatever resolution or agreements might be established, there's absolute deniability that any agreement was ever reached, or that the discussion even took place.

This seriously sound like a plain intention to start a fire or finding ways for a dominant volcano to erupt. And people are going to leave SPCNET one by one due to unhappiness. Live is stressful enough, we don't need all that.

[Guo Xiang]

This seriously sound like a plain intention to start a fire or finding ways for a dominant volcano to erupt. And people are going to leave SPCNET one by one due to unhappiness. Live is stressful enough, we don't need all that.

I don't think people will leave, but your suggestion that it will cause grudges is very likely to happen.

And just because it worked well in another forum doesn't mean it will work well in Spcnet forums. Afterall it's another community with different people. And even if someone appears to take the criticisms well, how would we really know that is truly the case? Not everyone will show their unhappiness and that's where the grudges come in.

[Ken Cheng]

I don't think people will leave, but your suggestion that it will cause grudges is very likely to happen.

Actually, its design purpose is to extract and eliminate old grudges. If we work it right, it'll achieve that effect.

But I do acknowledge it's risky. It's a sort of high-risk, high-rewards scenario.

But you know something? Some of the greatest turning points in human history occurred after people decided to take on some daunting risks.

By planning well and being committed to the program in the right way, we might minimize those risks.

[xJadedx]

Just to clarify: my idea of having confessionals is different from what Ken's trying to do. I'm not trying to have people bash each other with things they hate about each other.

The point of a confessional is meant to be a fun and honest way of seeing what another member thinks of you, and is only done if you want to hear it. Also, the member writing the confessionals will be determined through votes. The member writing the confessionals will also be told to write in somewhat more detailed and structured ways, rather than using one-liners. Most importantly, confessionals have both good and bad opinions stated in a mature way (from my experience with it, more good opinions are posted anyway).

I do think it's amusing how so many people worry about how things will get out of hand, kind of shows something about the average thought process here.

[Suet Seung]

Ken,

If you want a mediating thread, both parties or all parties have to have a genuine desire to improve friendship or resolve the problems between each other. Otherwise, nothing good will come of airing things out, except everyone here knows your business.

[remember_Cedric]

And just because it worked well in another forum doesn't mean it will work well in Spcnet forums. Afterall it's another community with different people. And even if someone appears to take the criticisms well, how would we really know that is truly the case? Not everyone will show their unhappiness and that's where the grudges come in.

And, I might list out a few things as far as my working memory still permits and from the perspective of a lazy person:-

1) grudges might be longstory, hence waste time to list them out.

2) and, personally, I might have a vague idea of why I dislike a person's certain personality but I can't remember exactly the details (not that I'd bother to remember since it would fade off with time)

Ken,

If you want a mediating thread, both parties or all parties have to have a genuine desire to improve friendship or resolve the problems between each other. Otherwise, nothing good will come of airing things out, except everyone here knows your business.

Wooohooooooooo~ SMSS, we love you!!!

Yeah, and why would people want to wash dirty linens in the public.