Yeah, but YG hadn't mastered the sword yet, he was only up to the wooden stage.
Putting in the time and effort doesn't automatically make you better.
YG had 9Yin, Dog beating stick, Jade Maiden, snake bladders, divine finger flick and HIS handed to him.obviously in terms of effort, and will yang gou is in no way inferior to xf, his fighting experience may be a bit less, but he is certainly more ingenious/free flowing then xf. it is by no means a quick and easy battle for either and could go to eitherside imo.
XF only has a few mediocre arts and dragon palms and he excelled. With XF, it's about the fighter. He's been shown to use his dragon palms in ingenius ways. He used Founder's Long Fist against a high ranking Shaolin master and won. He performs basic techniques faster than WYY can explain counters to. Overall, he's solid and makes even the weak stuff strong.
YG needs a gimmick to win, be it a large range of elite calibre skills, or the HIS. Correct me on this, but I seem to remember YG getting depressed and distracted when he can't win.
Only up to the wooden stage? Such a small feat eh?
I think you idolized Xiao Feng too much. But don't forget he's not the strongest in DGSD. At the end of the novel, he's probably was at best, 4th best.XF only has a few mediocre arts and dragon palms and he excelled. With XF, it's about the fighter. He's been shown to use his dragon palms in ingenius ways. He used Founder's Long Fist against a high ranking Shaolin master and won. He performs basic techniques faster than WYY can explain counters to. Overall, he's solid and makes even the weak stuff strong.
Actually when he was depressed he's at his best. You can it gimmick or what ever. And I don't pretend to know how good these guys are. After all, they are all made up characters, and furthermore, their kungfu are all made up even more. Don't forget, Jin Yong specifically said he tried to make the characters more realistic, but the kungfu are not. So unless Jin Yong got them to fight with each other, how would you know who is better? At least in DGSD, at the end of the novel, Xiao Feng was just at best the 4th best, while in ROCH, at the end, Yang Guo was if not the best, he was equal to the best.YG needs a gimmick to win, be it a large range of elite calibre skills, or the HIS. Correct me on this, but I seem to remember YG getting depressed and distracted when he can't win.
Read about Yang Guo below and what Jin Yong wrote about him here where before the 16 years, with HIS, Yang Guo already thought no one can defeat him. Then after he mastered the wooden sword, how much stronger was he?
"He stayed in the valley with the eagle as his companion for months. One day out of boredom, he made his way to the cliff where Dugu Qiubai buried his swords. He made his way to the top of the cliff and looked at the words underneath the decayed wooden sword:
“After the age of forty, I no longer relied on weaponry. Even bushes, trees, bamboo sticks or rocks can all be my sword. From then on, I achieved great progress and slowly reached the realm of overcoming the sword without a sword.”
Yang Guo thought to himself, “With the heavy iron sword, it can be said that I had no match under heaven’s skies; but from senior Dugu’s words, it appears that the wooden sword can defeat the heavy iron sword, and finally, no sword can defeat the wooden sword. Since Long’er said that we will only be able to see each other again in sixteen years time, with all these years to come, I might as well study the ways to defeat the heavy iron sword with the wooden sword and how to overcome
a sword without a sword.”
My point was that his wooden sword broke because he hadn't mastered it yet. If he mastered the wooden sword stage then his sword would not have broke against GWM. It wasn't JY being inconsistent. Atleast, not in that instance.
What does him being the best have to do with anything? I just think that he's better than YG and I provided reasons why I think so.I think you idolized Xiao Feng too much. But don't forget he's not the strongest in DGSD. At the end of the novel, he's probably was at best, 4th best.
YG doesn't do better when he's depressed, his signature palm requires him to be depressed. But all his other skills don't need it. My point is that XF exceeds expectations by being focused, which YG lacks.Actually when he was depressed he's at his best. You can it gimmick or what ever.
Well no shit sherlock. Beat me with a stick and call me silly, in all the times everyone's been posting here, you must be the only one that realised it's all fictional. Why are you even posting in this thread if you're just gonna say nothing matters cause it's fictional and JY didn't make them fight. It goes without saying that we are merely speculating.And I don't pretend to know how good these guys are. After all, they are all made up characters, and furthermore, their kungfu are all made up even more. Don't forget, Jin Yong specifically said he tried to make the characters more realistic, but the kungfu are not. So unless Jin Yong got them to fight with each other, how would you know who is better? At least in DGSD, at the end of the novel, Xiao Feng was just at best the 4th best, while in ROCH, at the end, Yang Guo was if not the best, he was equal to the best.
+1 to everything Banh Mi said.
+2 to the last paragraph.
Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!
How do you know that Jin Yong wasn't being inconsistent? You mean he has always been consistent with the character's kungfu? What's wrong with the idea that his sword would not have broken if he was fighting with someone with inferior internal energy, but GWM was not someone with inferior internal energy. And don't tell me GWM after 16 years was below of Guo Jing or Xiao Feng. There was absolutely no evidence of that. The only evidence was that after 16 years, GWM was able to fight against both Zhou Botong and Yideng at the same time.
You mean your beliefs? I guess when you have your beliefs, then there is nothing can change that.What does him being the best have to do with anything? I just think that he's better than YG and I provided reasons why I think so.
What if XF doesn't focus? Would he exceed expectations when he did not focus? Like when he was giving up at the Juxian manor would he escape death if his dad did not rescue him? What's the difference when a kungfu skill requires someone to be in a certain state of mind? Like Guo Jing, XLN, Zhou Botong being simple people was able to ultilize 2 hands performing different kungfu at the same time? Skills are skills. If someone need to fight a major opponent, he/she will prepare, to make sure he/she would be in a certain state of mind to do the battle.YG doesn't do better when he's depressed, his signature palm requires him to be depressed. But all his other skills don't need it. My point is that XF exceeds expectations by being focused, which YG lacks.
Well, I woudn't know. With you were so certain that this one will beat that one. Or that you were certain that Yang Guo "only" attained the wooden sword stage, who knows? I'm glad that you clarified that you were speculating.Well no shit sherlock. Beat me with a stick and call me silly, in all the times everyone's been posting here, you must be the only one that realised it's all fictional. Why are you even posting in this thread if you're just gonna say nothing matters cause it's fictional and JY didn't make them fight. It goes without saying that we are merely speculating.
Last edited by hoatran; 10-22-10 at 02:05 PM.
You're either not particularly bright, or not particularly logical. I can't figure out which yet.
GWM was losing to Yideng + ZBT, badly. He was mostly trying to run away (and failing). GWM was certainly worse than GJ and XF post 16 years. At the barest level, we have the following: GWM < YD + ZBT. Unfortunately, YD + ZBT > GJ, YG individually. Whether or not XF could take on both together is completely unknown.
Ranking in a story has nothing to do with ranking outside a story. For instance, let's take a random hyperpowerful universe (dragonball, for instance), where even low-mid tier characters can blow up planets. Does that mean that they couldn't take on a martial artist in a JY story? Of course not. Similarly, XF is in a much rougher universe (DGSD has higher tiers than the Trilogy), so he's definitely not expected to be #1 (nobody will argue Sweeps could wipe the floor with all the greats COMBINED).
Focus has little to do with this debate. YG's Sad Palms require a certain state of mind, that doesn't exist while he's with XLN, so it's more of a presence/absence of XLN that allows Sad Palms to work, not his state of mind.
Regardless, there is no concrete definitive evidence that XF would beat YG or vice versa. That said, there is more circumstantial evidence and featbased evidence that XF would indeed beat YG. However, hoatran has provided none of that, and has instead taken quotes either out of context, or completely fictitious. That is annoying
Let's not calling names now.
Yes, my mistake. GWM was not fighting both Yideng and Zhou Botong. However Jin Yong did not say he was losing to both of them either. But he did fight one, then the other. With Zhou Botong, neither could do anything to the other. The same thing with Yideng. So GWM ~ Zhou Botong ~ Yideng.GWM was losing to Yideng + ZBT, badly. He was mostly trying to run away (and failing). GWM was certainly worse than GJ and XF post 16 years. At the barest level, we have the following: GWM < YD + ZBT. Unfortunately, YD + ZBT > GJ, YG individually. Whether or not XF could take on both together is completely unknown.
How would you know GWM was worse than Guo Jing after 16 years? Was Guo Jing better than Zhou Botong or Yideng? Any evidence there? Not to mention there is no evidence where Yang Guo was in comparision with Zhou Botong or Yideng or Guo Jing after 16 years.
Yeah Right! Evidence DGSD kungu on the higher level? Or this is another piece of speculation? This is why I don't like to discuss kungfu levels.Ranking in a story has nothing to do with ranking outside a story. For instance, let's take a random hyperpowerful universe (dragonball, for instance), where even low-mid tier characters can blow up planets. Does that mean that they couldn't take on a martial artist in a JY story? Of course not. Similarly, XF is in a much rougher universe (DGSD has higher tiers than the Trilogy), so he's definitely not expected to be #1 (nobody will argue Sweeps could wipe the floor with all the greats COMBINED).
Yeah Right. When Yang Guo was battling the GWM after 16 years, XLN WAS there.Focus has little to do with this debate. YG's Sad Palms require a certain state of mind, that doesn't exist while he's with XLN, so it's more of a presence/absence of XLN that allows Sad Palms to work, not his state of mind.
I don't know who would beat whom. Thus I did not have to provide any evidence of who is better than whom.Regardless, there is no concrete definitive evidence that XF would beat YG or vice versa. That said, there is more circumstantial evidence and featbased evidence that XF would indeed beat YG. However, hoatran has provided none of that, and has instead taken quotes either out of context, or completely fictitious. That is annoying
Throughout ROCH, Guo Jing was repeatedly regarded as the 'premiere fighter in the mainlands' and was 'in the prime of his life.' Naturally, he should be regarded as the top fighter. All his showings (feats) in ROCH were very much skewed towards his favor.
DGSD has the 3 XYP elders, XZ, and Sweeper Monk, all of whom are considered the very pinnacle of martial arts in JY's universe. Nobody in any of the other novels (besides possibly SPT) could compete with them.
YG couldn't use Sad Palms BECAUSE XLN was there. He was only able to use them (for a moment) because he got sad that he'd be separated from her again. It was a gimmick.
You've clearly been arguing for YG's side, so to say that you don't know who would beat whom, is not a true statement.
xf would have to hurt xln in front of yg. then we'd have a real fight.
Lol, you are taking what YG thought as fact? GWM thought pretty much the same thing before he encountered GJ. JMZ also had pretty much the same thoughts. All of the students of DCQ thought he was the best. YG was certainly in exalted companyRead about Yang Guo below and what Jin Yong wrote about him here where before the 16 years, with HIS, Yang Guo already thought no one can defeat him. Then after he mastered the wooden sword, how much stronger was he?
and thenWell, I woudn't know. With you were so certain that this one will beat that one. Or that you were certain that Yang Guo "only" attained the wooden sword stage, who knows? I'm glad that you clarified that you were speculating.
And yet you were so certain about YG's level in comparison to GJ (they also did not fight each other) in the earlier postI don't know who would beat whom. Thus I did not have to provide any evidence of who is better than whom.
But on a separate note, I like one of your arguments
The next time someone (hi PJ )says that DY will lose in a fight because his 6MSJ cannot activate freely, I will quote you and put WYY on the brink of deathWhat if XF doesn't focus? Would he exceed expectations when he did not focus? Like when he was giving up at the Juxian manor would he escape death if his dad did not rescue him? What's the difference when a kungfu skill requires someone to be in a certain state of mind? Like Guo Jing, XLN, Zhou Botong being simple people was able to ultilize 2 hands performing different kungfu at the same time? Skills are skills. If someone need to fight a major opponent, he/she will prepare, to make sure he/she would be in a certain state of mind to do the battle.
In the 3rd edition of HSDS Zhang Sengfeng noted through Zhang Wujis eyes that only several pepople had attained that level of internal. The names mentioned was ZSF himself Guo Jing, Yang Guo, and the other greats. So they pretty much had the equal amount of internal energy
Yo momma cat
Too bad as a fighter Yang Guo are more better than Wuji..
Don't forget Yang Guo almost take every of Jinlun Fawang powerful strike (which as strong as Xiao Feng) head on even when he's weaponless n only have one arm
Since he wield Heavy Sword now I think he can fights Xiao Feng till stalemate 🤓🤓🤓🤓
I don't like Yang Guo power level from the TV adaption. They make him OP, by beating Huang Yao She and Zhou Po Dong after the time skip. But actually in the novel, he isn't. (It is the old novel adaption I think. I read it in around 1990) Yang Guo doesn't beat Huang and Zhou, but he makes them impress.
Well, I had read Tien Long Ba Bu, but it's long ago. And I think that I already forget about that. So I can't say about Xiao Feng power level in the novel.
But if we use TV adaption as the base, Xiao Feng definitely better than Yang Guo. He's more OP than OP. Just watch the 2003 version. He manages to beat a Liao Army in their battle formation alone. So his power is stronger than a whole army. Yang Guo was only manage to break through the formation by using his Eagle at the end of ROCH from the Sky. If Yang Guo has the same level as the TV Xiao Feng, those Mongol Invaders will never able to take over Xiang Yang, ever.