Swordsman 2012 《笑傲江湖》 - Wallace Huo, Joe Chen, Yuan Shan Shan

[Mido-Ban]

So Bixie sword play should be stronger then sunflower manual in sun moon sect? The only problem I have with this series is when LHC had no internal energy or couldn't use it, his Dugu 9 Sword seems more stronger, while when he learn Star absorbing and got that one dudes internal energy, he seem to be not as strong. Like how YBQ just kicked him and he got knocked out so easily.

And YZ should've shown more variety of Dugu 9, and wished there would've been more epic battle in the cave in Hua shan, with LHC vs YLS, and LHC vs RWX.

[wuxiarocks]

So Bixie sword play should be stronger then sunflower manual in sun moon sect?

It shouldn't be. Sunflower manual is the proper version of the two.

DFBB is the strongest or second strongest in the entire story. Somewhere along side FQY or the Head Abbot Shaolin.

[Mido-Ban]

I would thought the same thing, but with the link shangster provided, http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...H#.Udxbq6xqOSo

the debate seems to go that the bixie swordplay should be better since the LYT, I would believe has more insight, enlighten then the two hua shan brothers. Remember he was the one that helped put the sunflower manual the two brothers have, in which the ten sun moon sect members stole and dfbb came to learn.

It makes sense considering how LPZ was such a newb, then after learning he became stronger then the Yu Cang Hai in short period. He was fast etc, which reason why shangster also believe that YBQ should be strongest after learning it.

The head of shaolin and wu dang i believed stated that both techniques is just a small portion of the real Sun Flower Manual that Monk Hongxie burned after monk LYT left shaolin and started Fu Wei escort. Unless DFBB is more enlightened then LYT and made the Sun Flower Manual they got from Hua Shan better then the 72 Bixie Sword Play.

Just it seems that Bixie seems to made LPZ so strong in short time, while DFBB had like 10 years to master it to reach his current level. I remember in Li Ya Pengs version, DFBB praised LHC sword style, but LHC clearly stated that they could not have beat DFBB, let me find a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxeTSWog_sE

here is 96 version, in this DFBB always runs away from LHC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45CmThsx_cI

Richie Ren Version of DFBB VS LHC RWX RYY at 17 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EYi_ke8dNo
Richie ren version, RWX talks about the manuals at 30 minutes i believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC_LF7zuSpQ

[wuxiarocks]

I would thought the same thing, but with the link shangster provided, http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...H#.Udxbq6xqOSo

the debate seems to go that the bixie swordplay should be better since the LYT, I would believe has more insight, enlighten then the two hua shan brothers. Remember he was the one that helped put the sunflower manual the two brothers have, in which the ten sun moon sect members stole and dfbb came to learn.

It makes sense considering how LPZ was such a newb, then after learning he became stronger then the Yu Cang Hai in short period. He was fast etc, which reason why shangster also believe that YBQ should be strongest after learning it.

The head of shaolin and wu dang i believed stated that both techniques is just a small portion of the real Sun Flower Manual that Monk Hongxie burned after monk LYT left shaolin and started Fu Wei escort. Unless DFBB is more enlightened then LYT and made the Sun Flower Manual they got from Hua Shan better then the 72 Bixie Sword Play.

Just it seems that Bixie seems to made LPZ so strong in short time, while DFBB had like 10 years to master it to reach his current level. I remember in Li Ya Pengs version, DFBB praised LHC sword style, but LHC clearly stated that they could not have beat DFBB, let me find a link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxeTSWog_sE

here is 96 version, in this DFBB always runs away from LHC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=45CmThsx_cI

Richie Ren Version of DFBB VS LHC RWX RYY at 17 minutes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EYi_ke8dNo
Richie ren version, RWX talks about the manuals at 30 minutes i believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VC_LF7zuSpQ

I guess it all make sense if put in that perspective. I hadn't actually thought too much of all that.

But debating who is the strongest is quite tough, consider we never got all the fighters to go one on one. We do know those among the strongest are DFBB, YBQ, FQY, and the Head Abbot of Shaolin.

[szfong]

I believe in the novel, LHC finally found the biggest weakness of the Evil Resisting Swords Art & in a way also the Sunflower manual after his duel w/ his master, hence Dugu 9 Sword is unbeatable after he realized & found the serious flaw that all sword art has--that it repeats no matter how fast it may be.

[shangster]

I believe in the novel, LHC finally found the biggest weakness of the Evil Resisting Swords Art & in a way also the Sunflower manual after his duel w/ his master, hence Dugu 9 Sword is unbeatable after he realized & found the serious flaw that all sword art has--that it repeats no matter how fast it may be.

This is not true at all. He and his master never officially "fought" to the death. (I have to re-read the end part of the novel, but I don't remember they actually fought, and if they did, it would have been a very short fight that was then interrupted) Also, it was stated by in novel that the Dugu 9 Sword Stances cannot defeat DFBB. If you read the direct translation provide in that link, LHC admitted to DFBB that he was indeed the invincible fighter in jiang hu and that had they fought 1 vs 1, he would stand no chance. Not only that, but the fact that both LHC, who had mastered the 9 Dugu Swords stances, and RWX together could not defeat DFBB means that DFBB is much stronger than the second strongest group of characters.

[shangster]

It shouldn't be. Sunflower manual is the proper version of the two.

DFBB is the strongest or second strongest in the entire story. Somewhere along side FQY or the Head Abbot Shaolin.

Actually if you read the translation by the forum member "bliss", he provided a much clearer understand on the history of Sunflower Manual and Evil Resistent Sword. Basically, it's this:

1. Sunflower Manual was created at least 300+ years earlier than the period setting of the novel by a high ranking eunuch.

2. Somehow 300+ years later, during the period of SPW, it fell to the hand of the an earlier generation head abbot in Shaolin (not the current head abbot during LHC time).

3. Only this head abbot and his pupil (Lam Pingzhi's grandfather) possessed the martial arts expertise and literature to fully understand the theory behind the contents of Sunflower manual and how dangerous it is if felt to the wrong hand in jiang hu. The manual was unique in that the very first stage is the hardest to learn, and all the later stages after that are easy to master once they completed the first stage. (Obviously, castration is required to learn the first stage, but without the necessary martial art literature knowledge to understand its verses, even intelligent martial artists wouldn't know what to do)

4. Two Huashan brothers went to Shaolin, snuck into the study room and took a peek at the manual. Because they were in such a rush, one brother tried to memorize the verses from beginning to the middle, while the other the middle to the end. (I was under the impression that they actually wrote down a copy of the manual while at Shaolin, but they did not -- they only tried to memorize as much and as quickly as they can. They obviously left out a lot of detail from the original manual)

5. They went back to Huashan, recite what they can remember to each other and tried to practice, but nothing make sense. They suspected each other of lying, which resulted in the ki and qi fraction.

6. The head abbot, after discovering that the two brothers has took a peek at the manual, decided to burn the original copy to avoid other sects from infiltrating Shaolin in search of the manual. He then sent his pupil (Lam Pinzhi's grandfather) to Huashan to advise them not to practice the martial art.

7. When he arrived at Huashan, the two brothers greeted him, and recited a couple of verses so that he can interpret to them what it really means. As he casually interpreting the verses, he realized that what he said actually made a lot of sense, even though he never saw the original manual. The two brothers decided to invite the monk to stay for an additional 7 days so they can compile into a manual what he interpreted. (This compiled copy is the one that later fell into the hand of DFBB)

8. The monk left Huashan and was obsessed with the contents of Sunflower manual that he decided to compiled a clearer, more profound interpretation of the Sunflower manual as his own, and practiced it. He then left Shaolin for good, and established a very successful business. He was then regarded as the undisputed fighter and that his 72 evil resistent sword stances was the most sought after in jiang hu.

9. So basically, the copy that DFBB received was his "on-the-spot" interpretation while his own copy was a clearer and closer to its original content. Both copies are an abridge version of the original manual, just that the on written on the Cassock has a clearer interpretation.

Courtesy of "Bliss" for this detail of the history of the Sunflower manual.

Base on that information, I would say that the monk pupil (Lam Pingzhi's grandfather) would be considered "stronger" than DFBB because his understanding of the manual is much more profound than anyone else.

As for the Evil Resistant manual (Bixie sword play), I think how strong a practitioner is depends on their martial art knowledge and experience. For example, after Lam Pingzhi learned the Pixie sword play he is still not a match for YBQ or LHC. This is because Lam Pingzhi only has basic understanding of martial art and he doesn't have any talent for it -- even though he is as least as strong as Zuo Leng Chan after learning it. YBQ, on the other hand, was already an accomplished martial artist, and his martial art knowledge is pretty good -- although not as good as RWX or current head abbot -- which is why he got much more out of the Pixie sword play manual than Lam Pingzhi.

[shangster]

Also, for those still wondering about the LHC + RWX and co. fight vs DFBB. Courtesy of -- once again -- a forum member named "Bliss", he provided a direct translation of the only chapter involving DFBB:

"Lingwu Chong laughed and said: "If you were to switch places with Miss Ren, then that means that I'd have to marry an old twisted monster, I don't think that would be very easy to do!"

When Ren Woxing and the others heard those words escape his mouth, they were quite shocked. Dongfang Bubai's eyes glared at Lingwu Chong, his eyebrows flared up as his face turned green. "Who are you? How dare you talk to me like that. You've certainly got some guts." His tone of voice has sharp, he was definitely annoyed beyond repair.

Although Lingwu Chong was aware of the precarious situation that he was in, he couldn't help but laugh and utter: "Well does it really matter whether I'm a handsome young lad, or a beautiful young maiden? What I resent the most are those shameless old men who dress up like women."

Dongfang Bubai screeched back angrily: "I'm asking you, just who exactly are you?"

"My name is Lingwu Chong!"

Dongfang Bubai's anger gradually subsided as he broke a smile and said: "Ah! So you're Lingwu Chong. I've wanted to meet you for some time, I've heard that Miss Ren is totally enamored by you, to the point where she would even be willing to cut off her own head for you. I had the impression that you must be a handsome, charming, and talented young gentleman. But the more I look at you, you seem quite ordinary and plain. Compared with my Brother Lian, I'd have to say that you're off by a lot.

Lingwu Chong laughed and replied: "There really is nothing much good about me, only that I am true to my own feelings. Although that Yang buddy of yours is quite handsome, it's a pity and quite disturbing that he likes withered old weeds, coming here to ..."

Dongfang Bubai: "You ... you idiot ... what are you babbling about?" His entire face blushed red. Suddenly, a pink blur of a figure flashed across the room, a needle flew directly towards Lingwu Chong. Lingwu Chong had intended on angering him by saying those words, but as he saw Dongfang Bubai's sleeves sway, he raised his sword and stabbed towards Dongfang Bubai's throat. That one sword stab was incredibly fast, if Dongfang Bubai didn't withdraw, that blade would've pierced through his throat. But at that same moment, Lingwu Chong suddenly felt a slight pain in his left cheek, he swung towards his left in defense.

Dongfang Bubai's speed was simply unimaginable. In that flash of an instant, he managed to prick Lingwu Chong's face, and then contract his arm to block Lingwu Chong's sword strike with his needle right afterwards. Luckily that strike from Lingwu Chong was incredibly swift as well, it forced his opponent to draw up a defense, coupled with the fact that Dongfang Bubai was quite riled up and angry, the needle just slightly missed its mark, the Renzhong point on Lingwu Chong's face. The needle in Dongfang Bubai's hand was no longer than an inch, light enough to be blown away by the wind, light enough to float on water, yet he was able to parry Lingwu Chong's sword head-on with it. Dongfang Bubai's martial arts level was definitely beyond comprehension. Lingwu Chong was startled immensely, he knew that today he had run into a foe of unimaginable power. He knew that if he gave his opponent the leisure of the initiative, his life would be in grave danger. So instead, he unleashed four quick stabs at Dongfang Bubai, all aimed at vital spots.

Dongfang Bubai cried out in surprise and remarked: "Excellent swordsmanship!" He parried to the left, to the right, above and below, and knocked away all four of Lingwu Chong's attacks. Lingwu Chong stared intently at Dongfang Bubai's movements. That tiny sewing needle blocked four of his strikes yet showed not a single sign of wear or flaw. He didn't dare let Dongfang Bubai counterattack so with a shout, he hacked straight at Dongfang Bubai's head. Dongfang Bubai held the needle in his right hand between his thumb and index fingers, and simply lifted it upwards, stopping Lingwu Chong's sword dead in its path, impeding it from striking downwards entirely.

Lingwu Chong's arm felt numb, but he saw a pink blur flash by and a figure dash towards him from his left. It was already too late to block and too late to avoid it, in the spur of the moment, his sword rose and flashed towards Dongfang Bubai's left eye as well, it was a move that would result in injuries for both sides. Stabbing towards an opponent's eyes was a very underhanded move, a move that experts never used. But the 'Nine Swords of Solitude' that Lingwu Chong had mastered was formless to begin with, he was also quite a carefree person, and never really thought of himself as a master, also in the midsts of such danger he had no time to care about rules and etiquette. But he suddenly felt another small sharp pain near his left brow, as Dongfang Bubai leapt away and avoided his sword stab. Lingwu Chong realized that he had been pricked again by that needle in Dongfang Bubai's hands. But because Dongfang Bubai had to avoid Lingwu Chong's sword, his accuracy was a little off again as it missed its target, else Lingwu Chong's one eye would've been instantly blinded. In a fright, Lingwu Chong's sword lashed out like a violent storm, wildly stabbing and slashing in every which way, making it extremely difficult for the opponent to have time to counter with a single move. Dongfang Bubai parried to the left and blocked to the right, yet still had time to leisurely praise: "Excellent swordsmanship, excellent swordsmanship!"

Ren Woxing and Xiang Wentian both saw that the situation was starting to get out of control, one brandished his sword, the other his whip, and both attacked Dongfang Bubai at the same time. The combined forces of these three masters of the martial-realm was certainly devastatingly powerful. But Dongfang Bubai, with a handful of needles in each hand, unleashed a flurry of pricks and pokes at the three of them, his movements as quick as lightning, he showed no signs whatsoever of weakness. Shangguan Yun took up his blade as well and joined in the flurry of attacks, making the battle a four-against-one. After a brief moment in the confusion of battle, Shangguan Yun cried out as his blade hit the floor with a clang, with a flip he landed on the ground, his eyes writhing in pain over his left eye which had just been blinded by Dongfang Bubai. Lingwu Chong noticed that Ren Woxing and Xiang Wentian were attacking Dongfang Bubai all out, and that Dongfang Bubai showed no intenions of attacking him, so his sword sprung into action, unleashing stab after stab at Dongfang Bubai. But Dongfang Bubai's body was like a ghost, whirling in and out of sight, drifting about like formless smoke. The tip of Lingwu Chong's sword was always several inches off its mark.

Suddenly, Xiang Wentian cried out with an *AH*, followed by Lingwu Chong who gasped with a *HEI*, as the two of them had been struck by needles. Although the power of Ren Woxing's 'Star Essence Absorbing Stance' was powerful and deep, Dongfang Bubai's movements were fast to the extreme, he was nearly impossible to catch. Secondly, his weapon was an embroidery needle, he had no way of absorbing his internal energy through it. After several more exchanges, Ren Woxing cried out with an *AH* as well, his chest and throat both having been pricked. Fortunately, Lingwu Chong was unleashing an extremely fast attack at that time, forcing Dongfang Bubai to fend for his own safety, one of the needles missed its mark, while the other one did not penetrate very deep at all, both attacks were unable to injure the opponent.

The four of them had Dongfang Bubai surrounded and were attacking him all at once, and yet they hadn't even touched him yet, while all of them had already been pierced by his needles. Yingying, who was watching on the side, became increasingly worried, she thought: "I wonder if those needles are coated in poison, if they are then we'd be in deep trouble!"

Dongfang Bubai's movements became faster and faster, his body spun around in a pink blur all over the room. Ren Woxing, Xiang Wentian, and Lingwu Chong were all panting and shouting in frustration and and anger. All three of their weapons were infused with their internal energy, winds of force rocked through the room. Yet not even a peep escaped from Dongfang Bubai.

Yingying thought to herself, "If I throw myself into the battle, I'd only hinder their efforts and get in the way, what good would that bring? It appears that Dongfang Bubai still has the upper hand even though it's a three-on-one." In the corner of her eye, she caught glimpse of Yang Lianting sitting on top of the bed, focused intently on the battle, his face full of concern. An idea crossed Yingying's mind, as she crept towards the bed. Suddenly the dagger in her left hand rose, and stabbed into Yang Lianting's right shoulder. Yang Lianting was caught by surprise and could only cry out in pain. Yingying then drew her sword and stabbed it into his thigh.

Yang Lianting realized what she was trying to do, she wanted him to cry out in pain to disrupt Dongfang Bubai's concentration. So he tried his hardest to endure the pain and hold it in, not another sound escaped his mouth. Yingying became enraged and shouted, "Are you going to cry out or not? I'll cut off your fingers one by one!" Her sword rose and sliced off one of the fingers on his right hand. Yang Lianting was indeed resilient, although the pain was unbearable, he managed to keep his mouth shut. But the first cry that Yang Lianting gave out before had already reached Dongfang Bubai's ears. From the corner of his eyes, he saw Ren Yingying beside the bed, slowly torturing Yang Lianting with her sword. He shouted: "Little *****!" as a pink cloud of a figure darted towards the bed at Ren Yingying. She withdrew at the very last second to avoid the incoming attack, but it wasn't clear if Dongfang Bubai's needles had struck their mark. Lingwu Chong and Ren Woxing saw the opportunity as both slashed their swords across Dongfang Bubai's back and Xiang Wentian snapped his whip violently towards Yang Lianting's head. Dongfang Bubai disregarded his own safety, and stabbed his needle backwards into Xiang Wentian's chest.

Xiang Wentian felt his entire body go numb, as his whip fell to the floor. Right at that time, Lingwu Chong and Ren Woxing both plunged their swords through the back of Dongfang Bubai. Dongfang Bubai's entire body shook, and then collapsed on top of Yang Lianting. Ren Woxing was overjoyed as he pulled his sword out from Dongfang Bubai's back and pointed the tip at the back of his neck and said: "Dongfang Bubai, finally ... finally you've fallen by my hand!" In the rush of heated combat, he hadn't yet caught his breath. Yingying was too shaken up by the fight, her two legs became weak, as she wavered back and forth and then fainted to the floor. Lingwu Chong rushed to her side and caught her just as she fell, he saw a tiny gash of blood on her left cheek.

Yingying: "You've sustained quite a number of injuries too." She extended her sleeve and wiped across Lingwu Chong's face, her sleeve became stained with dots and streaks of red blood.

Lingwu Chong turned to Xiang Wentian and asked, "Are your injuries serious?"

Xiang Wentian forced a laugh and said: "I won't die that easily!"

Blood gushed forth from the two wounds on Dongfang Bubai's back, his injuries were fatal, he cried painfully: "Brother Lian, Brother Lian, how cruel of these villains to torture you like this!"

Yang Lianting replied angrily: "You always claimed that your martial arts were invincible, how come you can't even take care of these bastards?"

Dongfang Bubai: "I ... I already ..."

Yang Lianting replied: "You what?"

Dongfang Bubai: "I've already tried my best, they ... their martial arts are quite strong as well." His body suddenly trembled as he rolled to the floor. Ren Woxing was afraid that he would get up again so he stabbed his sword into Dongfang Bubai's left thigh.

Dongfang Bubai laughed decrepitly and said: "Sect-Master Ren, you've finally won, I've lost."

Ren Woxing let out a hearty laugh and said: "You little sneak, do you think you can change what was transpired?"

Dongfang Bubai shook his head and said: "I'm not trying to change anything. Since I've been defeated here today, I know that my life is over." His voice had been extremely high and sharp, but now it had sunk to a lower tone as he continued: "But if we had fought one-on-one, there is no way that you would've defeated me."

Ren Woxing hesitated for a second, and then replied: "You're right, your martial arts are definitely at a higher level than mine, that I truly admire."

Dongfang Bubai: "Lingwu Chong, your swordsmanship is incredible, but if we fought one-on-one, you wouldn't be my match either."

Lingwu Chong: "That is true, in fact the four of us combined wouldn't be able to overcome you. It was only because of your attachment to that person surnamed Yang, that we were able to break your concentration and injure you. Your martial arts are at anunimaginable level, there is no one worthy of the title, 'Number One Fighter Under The Heavens' other than you. In that sense, I truly have utmost respect for you."

Dongfang Bubai slightly snickered and said: "That the two of you are able to admit that, at least I know that you two are true men, with sincerity and integrity. Aye, what a pity, what a pity, ever since I mastered the 'Sunflower Script', I followed exactly what was written on that script. First, I had to castrate myself to train my qi, then I had to refine pellets and intake herbs. Gradually, I lost all my facial hair, and my voice started to change, my temper started to change as well. After that, I was no longer attracted to women, I killed all seven concubines that I had with me, and ... and I put all my affection and care towards Yang Lianting. If only I were born a woman, then that would've been perfect."

So yeah, DFBB is pretty much on sweeper monk level lol. Really hard to imagine how strong Lam Pingzhi's grandfather was.

[szfong]

This is not true at all. He and his master never officially "fought" to the death. (I have to re-read the end part of the novel, but I don't remember they actually fought, and if they did, it would have been a very short fight that was then interrupted) Also, it was stated by in novel that the Dugu 9 Sword Stances cannot defeat DFBB. If you read the direct translation provide in that link, LHC admitted to DFBB that he was indeed the invincible fighter in jiang hu and that had they fought 1 vs 1, he would stand no chance. Not only that, but the fact that both LHC, who had mastered the 9 Dugu Swords stances, and RWX together could not defeat DFBB means that DFBB is much stronger than the second strongest group of characters.

In Chapter 36; Translated by Pokit:

At this time, he had endured fighting against Yue Buqun for close to two hundred moves when he saw Yue Buqun exposing a weakness underneath his right armpit in a slash of his sword. Yue Buqun had used this move earlier. Originally, the changes in his swordplay were very complicated and he didn't repeat any of his moves in the past two hundred moves. But now, he has finally repeated one move. After several more moves, Yue Buqun's long sword slashed out horizontally exposing a weakness on his left waist. He had again repeated another move. Suddenly, a thought flashed in Linghu Chong's mind, "His Evil Resisting Sword Art is extremely quick, and his flaws aren't actual flaws. Even though there's no weakness in his sword moves, I've finally found out a weakness in his swordplay -- his swordplay repeats."
In this world, in whichever sword art, no matter how complicated and how many changes your swordplay had, you would eventually finish using all the sword moves. Once the sword moves were used up and you still weren't able to gain victory, then it would be unavoidable that you would have to reuse the sword moves you had used earlier in the fight. But for masters, their refined sword arts would always have eight or ten groups, and within each group there would be dozens of moves, and each move would have its variations. So it was very unusual for them to fight for more than a thousand moves before the outcome of the fight was decided. Even though Yue Buqun knows a lot of other swordplay he could use, he knew Linghu Chong's sword art was actually too strong and that Linghu Chong was also familiar with the Huashan School's sword art. So besides the Evil Resisting Sword Art, there was no other sword art he could use that could gain victory. By now, Yue Buqun had repeated many moves. Knowing he now had the opportunities to take victory, Linghu Chong felt happy.
When Yue Buqun saw the corner of Linghu Chong's mouth smiling, he was secretly startled. Yue Buqun thought, "What's this little thief smiling about? Has he figured out a way to defeat me?" He immediately moved his internal energy, and was suddenly advancing and retreating to go around Linghu Chong in a circle. His sword moves were like a violent storm and they were getting faster and faster. Yingying was still lying down on the ground and from her position, she couldn't see Yue Buqun's body clearly anymore. She felt dizzy looking at him; her chest felt nauseated and she felt like throwing up.
After fighting for thirty more moves, Yue Buqun's left hand stabbed forward while he withdrew his right hand. Linghu Chong knew this was the third time he had used this move. After fighting for so long, Linghu Chong felt tired as his injury was just beginning to heal. He knew the situation was highly dangerous, and under Yue Buqun's lightning fast attack, if he was just slightly careless, he would lose his life and Yingying would be tortured. So seeing Yue Buqun using this move again, he immediately sent his sword out and stabbed it at his opponent's right armpit. The spot that this slanting sword was stabbing at was the weakness of Yue Buqun's next move. This was really anticipating what the enemy was going to do and made Yue Buqun's really anxious. Even though this move by Yue Buqun was extremely quick, Linghu Chong's attack was done earlier. The move from the Evil Resisting Sword Art had not changed yet, but Linghu Chong had already thrust at Yue Buqun's armpit making him unable to block or dodge. Yue Buqun cried out sharply, sounding surprised, angry, and desperate. Linghu Chong's sword had already arrived at his opponent's armpit, but when he heard Yue Buqun's sharp cry, he immediately thought, "I'm going too far, he's my master, how can I injure him?" He quickly pulled his sword back and said, "The winner and loser has been decided. Let's save Master-Wife, then... then we'll go our own ways!"
Yue Buqun's face was pale as he slowly nodded his head. "Alright! I admit defeat."

[shangster]

In Chapter 36; Translated by Pokit:

Yes, I remember now! Also, that translation misses some earlier information that references RWX and DFBB. Basically, as translated, but let me make it a little clearer. (I thought it was YBQ's stomach area -- not under the armpit -- that was his weak spot. Maybe I remember wrong?)

1. LHC and YBQ started their fight.
2. LHC realizes that the most formidable aspect of Pixie sword play is its quick speed, and and how fast YBQ changes his sword stances whenever there's a potential weak spot for an opponent to attack.
3. During the fight, YBQ was thinking about how RYY would spread the secret of his pixie sword to other pugilists, which would tarnishes his reputation (his castration)
4. Because of that, his sword strokes gradually decline a little, in which LHC uses that little time to figure out his weak spot. But as YBQ gets more apprehensive, his strokes gradually fasten and hit harder.
5. LHC references his first duel against RWX, in which he had no internal energy. He remembered that although RWX's sword skill were very formidable, it wasn't as spontaneous or as fast as the Pixie sword play.
6. He references YBQ's fight against Zuo Leng Chan, and Lam Pingzhi's fight against the hunchback and his parents' killer to find the weakness in Pixie sword play.
7. It was explained that in term of swordsmanship skill, YBQ actually lacked behind LHC because YBQ had only studied the Pixie sword for a short period of time, whereas LHC studied his Dugu 9 sword stances much longer, and has more experiences with his sword technique.
8. During the fight against YBQ, LHC also remembered and referenced his duel against DFBB, that although their martial art were similar, their skills and speed were night and day different -- that YBQ was not in the same league.
9. The novel explains that during LHC's duel against DFBB, he saw several of DFBB's weak spots. However, whenever LHC attempted to attack his weak spot, within a blink of an eye, DFBB changed his stance immediately, eliminating whatever chances LHC + RWX and two other fighters had at attacking him all the while they had to defend from DFBB's incoming fury of attack.
10. The rest of the fight is as explained in the quote translated by pokit -- YBQ uses variations of the 72 pixie sword stance and repeated some moves, in which LHC saw and counter.


I really wish that Jin Yong would explain in more detail about some of the martial art concepts in his writing. If i remember correctly when he introduces DFBB, there was no information that DFBB uses any of the 72 sword stances similar to the pixie sword -- DFBB doesn't even use a sword. Yet, the manual that DFBB studied from is probably the same one interpreted by Lam Pingchiz's grandfather when he visited Huashan. Maybe the monkuses the core concept of the sunflower manual and created the 72 pixie sword to deviate from the Sunflower manual?

[Tankerdude]

Just finishing watching this 2013 verison and I'm sorry to say I'm disappointed, very disappointed in fact. Frankly I think it's terrible. They changed so many things drastically from the novel. It's like I am watching a completely unrelated tv series which happens to share the same character name as "Smiling, Proud Wanderer".

I can understand television being as different medium requires change to make certain plot or chracters more dramatic on screen as opposed to the page, but I think this is taking things way too far. I mean, DFBB as a woman and falling for Ling?? Come on, that is just copying (part) of the 1992 movie with Brigitte Lin falling for Jet Li (and despite the 1992 movie also departing so much from the book, at least it was very entertaining to watch as a film).

That's the other thing, if you are going to make changes in the adaptation you have to make sure it is to keep it entertaining and highly watchable. I get the feeling with this 2013 version, they just made a teen romantic soapy drama with some martial arts thrown in. By comparsion, the other mainland version, the 2001 series by CCTV was much superior. Yes, the 2001 version also departed from the novel towards the end (and at the beginning), but overall it kept closer to the spirit of the novel than this. The 2001 version also had better fights as well, with this version, I get the feeling I'm watching a live video game with bad CGI. It just looks so fake.

And sorry if this point has already been repeated, but Joe Chen would have better off being RYY instead of DFBB. As DFBB she just doesn't give off that auror of menace and mystery as DFBB should. She could have been mistaken for RYY in so many of the earlier episodes of the 2013 series.

Sorry for the ranting, but I'm just so very disappointed with what these producers have done to my favorite Jin Yong novel.

[shangster]

Just finishing watching this 2013 verison and I'm sorry to say I'm disappointed, very disappointed in fact. Frankly I think it's terrible. They changed so many things drastically from the novel. It's like I am watching a completely unrelated tv series which happens to share the same character name as "Smiling, Proud Wanderer".

A lot of wuxia fans do not like this version at all. It is as you said, an "idol" drama that borrowed plot(s) from a wuxia story that catered to the "fan-girl" audience.

That's the other thing, if you are going to make changes in the adaptation you have to make sure it is to keep it entertaining and highly watchable. I get the feeling with this 2013 version, they just made a teen romantic soapy drama with some martial arts thrown in. By comparsion, the other mainland version, the 2001 series by CCTV was much superior. Yes, the 2001 version also departed from the novel towards the end (and at the beginning), but overall it kept closer to the spirit of the novel than this.

Looking back now, one of the thing that I really appreciated about the 2001 version is that the changes they made were really consistent throughout the plot. Even though Li Ya Peng didn't exactly portrait LingHu Chong the way he was supposed to, his serious and solemn demeanor really fitted well with the more serious and darker tone of the drama.

And sorry if this point has already been repeated, but Joe Chen would have better off being RYY instead of DFBB. As DFBB she just doesn't give off that auror of menace and mystery as DFBB should. She could have been mistaken for RYY in so many of the earlier episodes of the 2013 series.

Yeah, I think I was one of those who pointed that out as well. Whenever Joe Chen was in her lady-like custom and interact with Wallace in a more lady manner, I couldn't help but thought she would make a great Ren Ying Ying, afterall, most of Ren Ying Ying's important scenes were done by Joe Chen :P.


Also, for those who are still interested, I just found a great web site to read Smiling, Proud, Wanderer fully translated into English.
http://www.lannyland.com/wanderer/wanderer.shtml
Enjoy :P

[Tankerdude]

Yeah I shown have known better when they cast Joe Chen the "idol queen" as DFBB. This should have been a warning for me that this will be an "idolized" teen drama rather than a real wuxia series. But alas, I love the novel so much I watched this wretched piece of trash anyway.

I suppose in fairness, the only thing that is remotely watchable for this tv series is the fact that Joe Chen and Wallace Huo do have pretty strong on-screen chemistry (maybe due to their past off-screen romance? Ha, I'll skip the gossip here). All the more reason for Joe to be casted as RYY instead. They should have just avoided that whole nonsense about "DFBB-falling-for Ling", which gives the impression they are just copying the 1992 movie version (and copying badly I might add). But I guess the producers did'nt think there was enough "romance" in the original novel (roll eyes).

[Jianghuman]

Just finishing watching this 2013 verison and I'm sorry to say I'm disappointed, very disappointed in fact. Frankly I think it's terrible. They changed so many things drastically from the novel. It's like I am watching a completely unrelated tv series which happens to share the same character name as "Smiling, Proud Wanderer".

I can understand television being as different medium requires change to make certain plot or chracters more dramatic on screen as opposed to the page, but I think this is taking things way too far. I mean, DFBB as a woman and falling for Ling?? Come on, that is just copying (part) of the 1992 movie with Brigitte Lin falling for Jet Li (and despite the 1992 movie also departing so much from the book, at least it was very entertaining to watch as a film).

That's the other thing, if you are going to make changes in the adaptation you have to make sure it is to keep it entertaining and highly watchable. I get the feeling with this 2013 version, they just made a teen romantic soapy drama with some martial arts thrown in. By comparsion, the other mainland version, the 2001 series by CCTV was much superior. Yes, the 2001 version also departed from the novel towards the end (and at the beginning), but overall it kept closer to the spirit of the novel than this. The 2001 version also had better fights as well, with this version, I get the feeling I'm watching a live video game with bad CGI. It just looks so fake.

And sorry if this point has already been repeated, but Joe Chen would have better off being RYY instead of DFBB. As DFBB she just doesn't give off that auror of menace and mystery as DFBB should. She could have been mistaken for RYY in so many of the earlier episodes of the 2013 series.

Sorry for the ranting, but I'm just so very disappointed with what these producers have done to my favorite Jin Yong novel.

Well I differ a bit in that I think a movie/tv series should be judged on it's own merits rather than how closely it aligns with the source material. A movie/tv series could be very faithful to the source material but can be horrible because of poor execution, or just that certain scenes don't translate well on screen as opposed to the page.

That being said, I will agree that this latest Xiao Au Jiang Hu adaptation is really crappy, to put it kindly. Not so much because it differs so much from the book but simply because it isn't very well-scripted. It's not interesting to watch. And yeah, the fight scenes really sucks here. All CGI, hardly any wire-work or real action.

As for Joe Chen, I think she is now becoming a better actress these days. I don't understand why she still acts in these idol dramas (yes this "Swordsman" is a teen idol drama, let's not kid ourselves). Her talent is wasted in these series, time for her to try something different I think.

[VetaMega]

Yeah I shown have known better when they cast Joe Chen the "idol queen" as DFBB. This should have been a warning for me that this will be an "idolized" teen drama rather than a real wuxia series. But alas, I love the novel so much I watched this wretched piece of trash anyway.

I suppose in fairness, the only thing that is remotely watchable for this tv series is the fact that Joe Chen and Wallace Huo do have pretty strong on-screen chemistry (maybe due to their past off-screen romance? Ha, I'll skip the gossip here). All the more reason for Joe to be casted as RYY instead. They should have just avoided that whole nonsense about "DFBB-falling-for Ling", which gives the impression they are just copying the 1992 movie version (and copying badly I might add). But I guess the producers did'nt think there was enough "romance" in the original novel (roll eyes).

It's so much more compelling to watch the audacious, I-can-take-over-the-world-through-my-own-will-and-prowess, 1st in command of an evil sect fall completely in love with the good guy than it is to watch the same happen to the relegated, oppressed, daddy's girl, second in command who inevitably dramatically falls behind the main character in martial arts. Part of the brilliance of initial concept here, and I am not saying it's an original concept necessarily, is that DFBB, despite being born as a female in ancient China, maneuvers herself to become the most powerful leader in Wulin with the most powerful martial arts. In fact, DFBB retains her role as the person with the most powerful martial arts throughout the series; this is unlike every other wuxia drama where the females are always weaker than the men. LHC plays catch-up the entire series. Having it all, DFBB finds out that there's something more to life than being the most powerful and here her morals and self-image shakes, conflicts. She doesn't have to help LHC every step of the way, but she chooses to. Her pretending to be a man, begins her and LHCs relationship off as role-equals, and that sense of equality lasts throughout their limited relationship, creating room for dynamics. In addition, we can see she's somewhat evil but we can also see and understand why and also see that she can be a good person at times - allowing for us to sympathize with the head evil, who both deserves and doesn't deserve that title.

I just wished to see a far better follow-through and a better portrayed LHC.

[Tankerdude]

It's so much more compelling to watch the audacious, I-can-take-over-the-world-through-my-own-will-and-prowess, 1st in command of an evil sect fall completely in love with the good guy than it is to watch the same happen to the relegated, oppressed, daddy's girl, second in command who inevitably dramatically falls behind the main character in martial arts. Part of the brilliance of initial concept here, and I am not saying it's an original concept necessarily, is that DFBB, despite being born as a female in ancient China, maneuvers herself to become the most powerful leader in Wulin with the most power martial arts. In fact, DFBB retains her role as the person with the most powerful martial arts throughout the series; this is unlike every other wuxia drama where the females are always weaker than the men. LHC plays catch-up the entire series. Having it all, DFBB finds out that there's something more to life than being the most powerful and here her morals and self-image shakes, conflicts. She doesn't have to help LHC every step of the way, but she chooses to. Her pretending to be a man, begins her and LHCs relationship off as role-equals, and that sense of equality lasts throughout their limited relationship, creating room for dynamics. In addition, we can see she's somewhat evil but we can also see and understand why and also see that she can be a good person at times - allowing for us to sympathize with the head evil, who both deserves and doesn't deserves that title.

I just wished to see a far better follow-through and a better portrayed LHC.

Nah, there is nothing audacious or brilliant about this 2013 series at all. This whole DFBB-falling-for-LHC storyline was done before in the 1992 movie version with Jet Li and Brigitte Lin. This 2013 series merely copy that premise and adapt it onto the screen. There is nothing new or innovative story-wise. They also copied rather poorly I might add. Turning wuxia into a teen soap opera is not my idea of a great series. The fight scenes were done in a lousy fashion. Like I said, like a video game instead of the real stuff. I just don't find it interesting to watch.

Maybe it might appeal to romance fans or teenage girl (I don't know if you one of them), but for those who really know wuxia, this is nothing short of abusing the novel.

[sonny4T]

And sorry if this point has already been repeated, but Joe Chen would have better off being RYY instead of DFBB. As DFBB she just doesn't give off that auror of menace and mystery as DFBB should. She could have been mistaken for RYY in so many of the earlier episodes of the 2013 series.

It's not Joe Chen's acting. It's all about DFBB character who has nothing to see with the original DFBB. DFBB in this "idolized" drama (the word isn't mine) doesn't have that mystery and evilness of the novel. DFBB shows up at the very beginning of the series and we start thinking "he" isn't the man he's supposed to be. In a couple episodes, we find out DFBB is a beautiful woman disguised as a man to learn martial arts at the Sun Moon Sect and become its invincible leader (Bubai is invincible in Chinese right?). But she still stays female and she falls in love with LHC. For that Joe Chen is perfect portraying DFBB.

[Tankerdude]

It's not Joe Chen's acting. It's all about DFBB character who has nothing to see with the original DFBB. DFBB in this "idolized" drama (the word isn't mine) doesn't have that mystery and evilness of the novel. DFBB shows up at the very beginning of the series and we start thinking "he" isn't the man he's supposed to be. In a couple episodes, we find out DFBB is a beautiful woman disguised as a man to learn martial arts at the Sun Moon Sect and become its invincible leader (Bubai is invincible in Chinese right?). But she still stays female and she falls in love with LHC. For that Joe Chen is perfect portraying DFBB.

But aren't you contradicting yourself a bit there? In order for this "tragic" love story aspect to be convincingly sold to the audience, you need an actress which can portray such a role, which for some reason the producers think Joe Chen fits the bill.

Anyway, I agree this DFBB in the 2013 series sorely lacked the mystery and menace of the original DFBB. True, DFBB's actual appearance was rather brief in the novel, but it was a very memorable appearance nonetheless. But in this series, by making DFBB a female merely pretending to be a male, the producers destroyed that one powerful and disturbing aspect of DFBB, that of a transsexual who castrated himself. That is key to the whole DFBB character. It's not just the fact he/she is the most powerful martial artist in the whole of jianghu, but what he/she sacrificed in the form of castration to earn that power. And what that did to him as a result. A DFBB that just happens to be female without the need for castration just ruined that central aspect of the DFBB character. Even the 1992 movie version, for all it's changes to the original novel, preserved that transsexual aspect of the DFBB character.

[shangster]

It's so much more compelling to watch the audacious, I-can-take-over-the-world-through-my-own-will-and-prowess, 1st in command of an evil sect fall completely in love with the good guy than it is to watch the same happen to the relegated, oppressed, daddy's girl, second in command who inevitably dramatically falls behind the main character in martial arts. Part of the brilliance of initial concept here, and I am not saying it's an original concept necessarily, is that DFBB, despite being born as a female in ancient China, maneuvers herself to become the most powerful leader in Wulin with the most powerful martial arts. In fact, DFBB retains her role as the person with the most powerful martial arts throughout the series; this is unlike every other wuxia drama where the females are always weaker than the men. LHC plays catch-up the entire series. Having it all, DFBB finds out that there's something more to life than being the most powerful and here her morals and self-image shakes, conflicts. She doesn't have to help LHC every step of the way, but she chooses to. Her pretending to be a man, begins her and LHCs relationship off as role-equals, and that sense of equality lasts throughout their limited relationship, creating room for dynamics. In addition, we can see she's somewhat evil but we can also see and understand why and also see that she can be a good person at times - allowing for us to sympathize with the head evil, who both deserves and doesn't deserve that title.

I just wished to see a far better follow-through and a better portrayed LHC.

It depends on what kind of effect you had as an audience when watching this series. This "DFBB" is a made up character who took a lot of Ren Ying Ying's importance and memorable scenes. If the effect that Yu Zheng was trying to accomplish was to have an evil, menacing and all-powerful character turned soft once she met LHC, then he YZ failed when he chose Joe Chen for the role. Every time Joe Chen was in her DFBB Sun-Moon leader outfit, all I see is a cute girl acting in a role that doesn't fit her nor make much sense. Joe Chen simply does not have the right "look" or "presence" to pull off the strong, masculine yet feminine femme fatale type role.

In fact, Brigette Lin and that actress in the SoD 2000 made by the Singapore production pulled off the role much better simply because they have the right facial features.

Also, for those keep praising this DFBB's relationship with LHC as the highlight of this show, remember that you're not praising DFBB's character per se, but a character that already existed in the novel -- Ren Ying Ying.

[VetaMega]

That is the thing though. The highlights of Ren Ying's Ying's character are made stronger when they come from the self-made leader of the strongest sect in Wulin. If you are going to have an evil girl with authority, that evil girl would be a more impactful character if she possessed more authority, more ambition, more capability.

Moreover, Ren Ying Ying was born into her allegiance to the evil sect. DFBB chose to be leader of the evil sect and pursue world domination. Which one would be the more interesting?

In so much as the novel is changed; I don't know. I wasn't going to watch this version at first because if all the Xiao Ao Jiang Hu series follow roughly the same script, why bother watching the next series? I was provoked into watching after finding out that DFBB's role was changed dramatically, and I had hoped that would change the dynamics of the show a lot.