Dook Goo Kau Bai vs. all five end-of-ROCH Greats at same time.

[Ken Cheng]

Dook Goo Kau Bai's martial arts are widely believed to be at a level higher than those of the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Greats, and I can visualize him being able to defeat maybe two of them at a time, but how do you think he would fare against ALL FIVE of the Greats from the end of ROCH (Gwok Jing, Yeung Gor, Chow Bak Tung, Wong Yerk See, 1 Deng) at the same time? Do you like his chances one-on-five, or would those five together be too much even for him to handle all at once?

[Linda]

If the five greats were working together than there was no way Dook Goo Kau Bai could have defeated them all at once.

He might be on a godlike level but with five opponents of high level, he wouldn't be able to guard against them all at the same time, if they tag team each other, their internal energy will outlast his. No matter how powerful he is, he will eventually run out of energy if he has no time to rest to replenish it.

I'd say even the sweeper monk would have the same issue.

Their only chances of wining is if they kill off at least 2 of the greats near the beginning before he loses steam.

I would suggest killing off Ouyang Feng and Huang Yaoshi. Ouyang Feng would likely fight with poison and Huang Yaoshi is very cunning and could use underhanded means to win. While the remaining three greats are bound by their own righteousness so it would be a more fair fight with them.

[Ken Cheng]

If the five greats were working together than there was no way Dook Goo Kau Bai could have defeated them all at once.

He might be on a godlike level but with five opponents of high level, he wouldn't be able to guard against them all at the same time, if they tag team each other, their internal energy will outlast his. No matter how powerful he is, he will eventually run out of energy if he has no time to rest to replenish it.

I'd say even the sweeper monk would have the same issue.

Their only chances of wining is if they kill off at least 2 of the greats near the beginning before he loses steam.

I would suggest killing off Ouyang Feng and Huang Yaoshi. Ouyang Feng would likely fight with poison and Huang Yaoshi is very cunning and could use underhanded means to win. While the remaining three greats are bound by their own righteousness so it would be a more fair fight with them.

Au Yeung Fung wouldn't be there; at the end of ROCH, the Greats are Gwok Jing, Yeung Gor, Chow Bak Tung, Wong Yerk See, and 1 Deng.

[Ian Liew]

Depends on how old he was by then. I can't see Huang Yaoshi, Yideng or Zhou Botong having much stamina to take on a battle of attrition. Golden Wheel Monk was able to hold his own against two of them for a while, and it took all three, iirc, to subdue him. Guo Jing and Yang Guo would be a bigger problem, but if he just ran in circles until the older three dropped dead of exhaustion he might have a decent chance. I can't see him taking on Yang Guo and Guo Jing, both in their prime, though. He was undefeated in one-on-one duels, but that doesn't mean that he was inhumanly invulnerable or anything like that.

[Ken Cheng]

Depends on how old he was by then. I can't see Huang Yaoshi, Yideng or Zhou Botong having much stamina to take on a battle of attrition. Golden Wheel Monk was able to hold his own against two of them for a while, and it took all three, iirc, to subdue him. Guo Jing and Yang Guo would be a bigger problem, but if he just ran in circles until the older three dropped dead of exhaustion he might have a decent chance. I can't see him taking on Yang Guo and Guo Jing, both in their prime, though. He was undefeated in one-on-one duels, but that doesn't mean that he was inhumanly invulnerable or anything like that.

Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor would undoubtedly do the heavy lifting in this hypothetical five-on-one match, but Dook Goo Kau Bai cannot afford to ignore the three elder Greats. They will create distractions that he can't ignore while Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor go in for the kill.

I wonder, though...would Yeung Gor be especially vulnerable to Dook Goo Kau Bai's attacks because so much of his (Yeung Gor's) own martial arts were derived from the ideas of Dook Goo Kau Bai?

[Linda]

For some odd reason I didn't see the end of roch part...

well that changes things now. I assumed we were looking at the original 5 greats at their peak and Dook Goo Kau Bai at his.

At what stage would we place Dook Goo Kau Bai then?

[Ken Cheng]

For some odd reason I didn't see the end of roch part...

well that changes things now. I assumed we were looking at the original 5 greats at their peak and Dook Goo Kau Bai at his.

At what stage would we place Dook Goo Kau Bai then?

His best. No Sword Stage.

[Trien Chieu]

He was undefeated in one-on-one duels, but that doesn't mean that he was inhumanly invulnerable or anything like that.

To me that is good enough to claim to be the best. To be the best, all you need to do is beating the best in an one-on-one duel. You can't expect one person to defeat many elite fighters at the same time. Just like the in MMA, boxing and muay thai, all the champions need is able to beat best challengers in a one-on-one duel to claim being the best. Nobody expects them to fight many fighters at the same time.

[Linda]

His best. No Sword Stage.

My belief still stands. Two hands cannot defeat multiple enemies.

Combined the internal energy of all five greats would be at least equal to that of Dook Goo Kau Bai. though the greats were divided into Yin and Yang internal energy, I'm not sure if it's possible to channel their energy into one.

Yang Guo at the end of ROCH was at least at the 3rd stage of DGKB's sword stance, the heavy sword stance.

If taking the assumption that Guo Jing, Zhou Bo Tong, Yi Deng and Huang Yao Shi by end of ROCH were all at least equal to Yang Guo, they would also all fall under the Heavy Sword stance.

[Ken Cheng]

My belief still stands. Two hands cannot defeat multiple enemies.

Combined the internal energy of all five greats would be at least equal to that of Dook Goo Kau Bai. though the greats were divided into Yin and Yang internal energy, I'm not sure if it's possible to channel their energy into one.

Yang Guo at the end of ROCH was at least at the 3rd stage of DGKB's sword stance, the heavy sword stance.

If taking the assumption that Guo Jing, Zhou Bo Tong, Yi Deng and Huang Yao Shi by end of ROCH were all at least equal to Yang Guo, they would also all fall under the Heavy Sword stance.

Chow Bak Tung, 1 Deng, and Wong Yerk See are not the inferiors of Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor in skill, but their old age will limit their stamina. I think the Greats would be best served by having the elders run interference while the two prime heroes actively attack Dook Goo Kau Bai.

[ChanceEncounter]

He might be on a godlike level but with five opponents of high level, he wouldn't be able to guard against them all at the same time, if they tag team each other, their internal energy will outlast his. No matter how powerful he is, he will eventually run out of energy if he has no time to rest to replenish it.

I'd say even the sweeper monk would have the same issue.

The problem with this line of thinking is that we don't know enough about either figure (Sweeper Monk or DGQB) to make any kind of legitimate assessment.

The logic that five people can simply attack together and overwhelm any figure with "just two hands" is real world sound, I suppose, but there's plenty of examples in Wuxia where someone is able to hold off more than five people given a substantial enough gap in skill and ability between them, even if they are fully trained to work in unison. XKX probably gave us the most extreme example where two people could hold off an entire sect. HYS was able to hold off against all seven of the QZ elders in formation.

We can infer from what we know in the books that SM is probably substantially above great-level. He's clearly stronger than the XY elders, who are a level or two ahead of the greats, and JY has stated he has more internal energy than XZ, who has the internal strength of three of them. We don't know how much ahead of them they are, specifically, however.

DGQB's no sword stage would likely be an entire quantum leap or two above YG's in terms of internal (he was not able to master the wooden sword stage because of a lack of internal strength, and less likely the no sword stage). And LHC, using DGQB's sword philosophies, was able to beat more than 5 opponents simultaneously—including blinding nine with a single stroke—on more than one occasion, often with less internal than the guys he was facing. We also don't know just how high his martial arts skill go.

Absent more concrete information, it's conceivable that they could be so high that they view the greats as QZ elder level opponents, in which case it's completely conceivable that they could defeat them especially considering they aren't likely as efficient at fighting together as the aforementioned group.

Even if this was not the case, these kinds of hypotheticals always ignore some of the most important factors that go into the outcome of the fight. For one, what kind of situation are they in? Is it conceivable that SM or DGQB could use natural chokepoints or dance/flit around enough to get into enough quasi-one-on-one engagements that he can start picking off figures to thin their numbers?

[Dirt]

If we take Feng Qingyang as a watermark (someone on par with Ren Woxing), there's no indicator that Dugu Qiubai could defeat 1 Great all that easily.

[Ken Cheng]

If we take Feng Qingyang as a watermark (someone on par with Ren Woxing), there's no indicator that Dugu Qiubai could defeat 1 Great all that easily.

DGKB was *probably* significantly better than Fung Ching Yeung, Yeung Gor, and Ling Wu Chung. I imagine all three received somewhat watered-down versions of DGKB's original techniques.

[Dirt]

DGKB was *probably* significantly better than Fung Ching Yeung, Yeung Gor, and Ling Wu Chung. I imagine all three received somewhat watered-down versions of DGKB's original techniques.

Who are you and how did you get access to Ken Cheng's account?