A decade with Gu Long

[Athena]

It took me a bit over ten years to read all of Gu Long’s novels. In the last ten years, I made sure that apart from the annual novels I wanted to read A Song of Ice and Fire series, the Luminaries, Wolf Hall and the occasional Murakami, I would slip in a title of Gu Long. I even read the novels published under his name, but those titles are disputed. I generally liked his novels and stories; however I do feel that some of his stories were underdeveloped or even felt rushed. There are some books and I can’t remember the plot anymore. In my defense, I did read those books maybe seven or eight years ago. I just cannot remember 獵物。賭局， 絕不低頭，風鈴中的刀聲， 殘金缺玉。

If anyone knows, what is the story of those attributed titles? Did he start or conceptualize the story but never finished it? There are some blatant cases of plagiarism in some of those disputed titles. The editor(s) or ghost writer(s) just copied paragraphs from Gu Long’s earlier works and just changed the names of the characters to fill a page. I was shocked that they could get away with that. Maybe they didn’t, because there are only online texts of those books available. So, if anyone knows, I would love to hear the backstory about that.

Gu Long does manage to create very suspenseful atmosphere and scenes. I am sometimes slightly annoyed that the duels never live up to the build-up. Gu Long in his earlier works does describe duels and fights in detail, but in his later works he shifts to setting the scene. However, I feel a bit underwhelmed by the lack of details; in fact sometimes there is a build-up to a fight but the fight never happens and it ends with a sword, dagger or anything else sharp through the throat, heart or any other vital organ of the opponent of the protagonist. I do not need details of two paragraphs to two pages for a non-essential fight, but it does feel rather underwhelming if it happens continuously.

The plot and ending in Gu Long novels are slightly different from the standard classic wuxia. Gu Long’s later works are viewed more favorably than his earlier books, because of his experimentation of using western literature’s motives and techniques into wuxia. With that being said some of his earlier works do have a lot of potential; the setup, the structure and the characters are all there. Unfortunately the stories do not fully develop. For instance湘妃劍， 失魂引 and 遊俠錄 are really good stories; I particularly like the setup of 失魂引 , but the story ends before it should have. Sometimes of the endings have these unnecessary plot twists and sad endings which do not really make sense. To me, it does feel that Gu Long sometimes did not have the tenacity to see a good novel through or for the sake of shaking up the status quo he decided that this novel should end on a sad note. I find the twist endings at times a bit forced and unnatural. I like happy endings, but I am not naive that I think all good people deserve a happy ending (looking sideways at Game of Thrones now). I can accept a sad ending as long as it is well executed and in Gu Long sometimes, I feel, it is not.

In short, I enjoyed reading all of Gu Long’s novels. They were part of my summer (or holiday) readings; indulgences and escapisms to a younger period in my life. There are some books which are better than others, but that is true with Jin Yong as well. However, I think I am pretty much done with wuxia as a genre. I don't think I will start reading another author of wuxia anymore. I have read two of Liang Yusheng’s novels and I don’t think I will be starting to read his other books anytime soon. Wuxia made me understand my own cultural heritage and I also learnt more about the Chinese language through reading (wuxia). I am very grateful that this genre exists and I am also eternally grateful for Jin Yong's and Gu Long's creativity for creating these wonderful stories for us.

[Ian Liew]

Thanks for the summary Athena. As you're probably the best person to ask, what would be a good Gu Long story which has a decent build-up, suspense, likeable characters and most of all, a good ending which leaves all loose ends tied? Something along the lines of 碧血洗银枪 or 护花铃?

[Athena]

Thanks Ian!
For a longer story, I would say 情人箭 has a good plot and development, but I do not find the protagonist very likeable (at the beginning). He grew on me as the novel progressed, but I still found him rather robotic. 劍客行 has a classic wuxia plot, but it is a bit predictable. Some of the characters are just not really fleshed out properly. I find the main character of大旗英雄傳 quite likeable, but the story does have its weaknesses. Furthermore, I had first read about 鐵中堂 in the Chu Liuxiang, so I sort of romanticized some of his adventures and I was somewhat disappointed that none of the references in Chu Liuxiang happened in Tie Zhongtang’s own story.

For nice wrapped up short stories, 長生劍 and 碧玉刀 are really funny and very entertaining for an afternoon’s leisure reading.

[mawguy]

wow, @athena, that's an amazing accomplishment! congrats! i would love to hear more about your thoughts on GL--his evolution as a writer, his stylistic choices, what you feel were his best and worst done bits of story, characterization, mood, etc.

i'm no GL expert, but having discussed his writing with others and read a few, i know that he very often would start a story and then depend on ghost writers (friends, students) to finish. seems he either had a bit of ADD or was just generally distracted by all the drinking and "living life". and i think he liked the shock value of plot twists and weird/fantastical elements that he throws into his stories. as for his fighting scenes, LOL, yes, a bit anti-climatic, but i've always felt that those scenes were more about his life philosophies and, in his more lucid and less preachy moments, about the psychology behind it than the actual fight. his characterizations can range from robotic to profoundly insightful, but despite the often deliberate weirdness, i find i rather like his characters because, like in the western tradition, there's an arc. there's development (if not necessarily growth). whereas in traditional wuxia, the protagonist tends to start off perfect and remain stagnantly perfect.

i hope you don't give up on wuxia altogether. a break is good, but there ARE other writers worth exploring. someday. meanwhile, enjoy your accomplishment!

[laurenhuang]

Thanks for the writeup that inspire me to read again
I pretty much finish more than half of JY's books.
Only 1 of GL's novels, which i stopped after that, can't remember the reason why.
Will probably start again.
Another one that I read was Huang Yi - Xun Qin Ji - the story about time travel novel back to Qin dynasty, and I really enjoy reading this very much.

I am amazed by your achievements as well

[Ian Liew]

Thanks for the recommendations. My local Kinokuniya doesn't carry 情人箭 or 劍客行, and 大旗英雄傳 brings back some horrible memories of TVB's adaptation which had a UFO at the end! I do have the Seven Weapons and will get started on 長生劍 and 碧玉刀, even if it'll probably take me a lot longer than an afternoon to get through each one!

Is 名劍風流 worth a read? I actually have the whole set which I bought a long time ago but somehow never found the time or drive to start as 银钩赌坊, which was my first Gu Long novel I read in Chinese, took me way way longer than I expected, and I was exhausted after that.

[Athena]

I have never watched the TVB adaptation of 大旗英雄傳 and by the sound of that it sounds horrible. I did not like every story of the Seven Weapons series, but I did like how every weapon symbolized something different.

名劍風流 has a good setup, but the ending felt rushed and another writer took over to finish the story. Therefore the style feels a bit different after some point of the story and like many Gu Long novels, there are a number of unresolved issues. It is not bad, but I don't find it a masterpiece (despite the fact that I translated it many years ago).

Wuxia doesn't have the same appeal to me anymore. I still re-read some chapters of Jin Yong's works from time to time. I have grown to appreciate Eileen Chang's works. I love her Half a Lifelong Romance and Love in a Fallen City. It's not wuxia, but her work is very compelling.

[mawguy]

@ian liew perhaps this can help: http://www.haodoo.net/?P=martial

[Athena]

First of all, thanks to all of you for the kind words! I don’t see reading all of Gu Long’s works as a Herculean task; it was all in all fun. These are some my criticisms towards his works. It may come across as a bit nitpicky. If you read the next paragraphs, you may think that I am very negative towards Gu Long. It is really the opposite, because if I were to write about what I love about Gu Long, this post would be three times longer.

I think some impressions on his earlier and later works would be that he moved away from the standard wuxia structure. His stories became more character driven than plot driven. The personalities of his protagonists are the highlights of some of his works such as in Lu Xiaofeng and Li Xunhuan. Generally, these protagonists are really fascinating characters. Truth be told, I don’t always like the characterization of his characters. Li Xunhuan is certainly not a favourite of mine; in fact there are very few characters I do like in the Flying Dagger Li. On the other hand, Lu Xiaofeng is written very well: comical, smart but also flawed. Furthermore, there are also some commonalities that his protagonists share: talented (but misunderstood); love for alcohol; fond of beautiful women; cynical towards life; possessing sarcastic wit; yet not completely devoid of a sense of right or wrong. Maybe, those are some of the traits Gu Long has himself and he projects those traits (subconsciously) in his work. He wouldn’t be the first author who did that and he wouldn’t be the last.

As insightful as it may seem how Gu Long uses some of his characters to be an outlet for his own philosophical musings on life, as I grow older myself I feel myself less susceptible to some of his musings. I often would think:” But that is your opinion and you are trying to ‘force’ me to agree with that view because of my invested interest in your protagonist.” At one point, I did not feel that those philosophical thoughts were very natural and convincing and to me it even felt a bit moralistic and preachy. I think I would have appreciated these views if they were published in a biography. I could choose to appreciate why Gu Long would come to some conclusions about righteousness, women and drinking with an appropriate context. Now it feels a bit non sequitur.

The shift from moving from traditional wuxia setup to his own unique style was a smart move. I think and I feel that some of his earlier books could not really match Jin Yong’s epic Bildungsromans, and making that change had served Gu Long well. However, I also feel that some of his later works were not wuxia but they were about triads. He used the modern triad story and put them in Ancient China. I liked wuxia as a genre and when I pick up a wuxia novel I hope to expect wuxia. I have the same expectations for any genre from romance to magic realism. I do feel that Gu Long at one point moved away from both characters in 武俠. He stopped to write about 武; the fights and duels are just descriptions or there is just the outcome. Then the 俠 is replaced with triad philosophy. In Ancient China, 俠 is different as we recognize it from popular culture. There is a bit of contradiction in Gu Long’s portrayal of this character. Is he going back to the roots of this concept of the past? In that aspect 俠客 are not always admirable people (using a modern moralistic view and also modern wuxia lens). This is really my personal preference; I don’t like ‘cop films or cop shows’ (unless it is Angie Tribeca). I never liked Hong Kong’s Infernal Affairs and I did not like the CSI shows (I know it is blasphemy). So for Gu Long to reinvent modern triad situations in an ancient costume situation was not a success formula for me. For example, Heroes without Tears or 白玉老虎 and 大地飛鷹 are books I read with difficulty and at times I felt l wanted to abandon finishing the novel.

These are just my views and feel free to take them with a pinch of salt (feel free to use buckets of salt).

[Ren Wo Xing]

First of all, thanks to all of you for the kind words! I don’t see reading all of Gu Long’s works as a Herculean task; it was all in all fun. These are some my criticisms towards his works. It may come across as a bit nitpicky. If you read the next paragraphs, you may think that I am very negative towards Gu Long. It is really the opposite, because if I were to write about what I love about Gu Long, this post would be three times longer.

I think some impressions on his earlier and later works would be that he moved away from the standard wuxia structure. His stories became more character driven than plot driven. The personalities of his protagonists are the highlights of some of his works such as in Lu Xiaofeng and Li Xunhuan. Generally, these protagonists are really fascinating characters. Truth be told, I don’t always like the characterization of his characters. Li Xunhuan is certainly not a favourite of mine; in fact there are very few characters I do like in the Flying Dagger Li. On the other hand, Lu Xiaofeng is written very well: comical, smart but also flawed. Furthermore, there are also some commonalities that his protagonists share: talented (but misunderstood); love for alcohol; fond of beautiful women; cynical towards life; possessing sarcastic wit; yet not completely devoid of a sense of right or wrong. Maybe, those are some of the traits Gu Long has himself and he projects those traits (subconsciously) in his work. He wouldn’t be the first author who did that and he wouldn’t be the last.

As insightful as it may seem how Gu Long uses some of his characters to be an outlet for his own philosophical musings on life, as I grow older myself I feel myself less susceptible to some of his musings. I often would think:” But that is your opinion and you are trying to ‘force’ me to agree with that view because of my invested interest in your protagonist.” At one point, I did not feel that those philosophical thoughts were very natural and convincing and to me it even felt a bit moralistic and preachy. I think I would have appreciated these views if they were published in a biography. I could choose to appreciate why Gu Long would come to some conclusions about righteousness, women and drinking with an appropriate context. Now it feels a bit non sequitur.

The shift from moving from traditional wuxia setup to his own unique style was a smart move. I think and I feel that some of his earlier books could not really match Jin Yong’s epic Bildungsromans, and making that change had served Gu Long well. However, I also feel that some of his later works were not wuxia but they were about triads. He used the modern triad story and put them in Ancient China. I liked wuxia as a genre and when I pick up a wuxia novel I hope to expect wuxia. I have the same expectations for any genre from romance to magic realism. I do feel that Gu Long at one point moved away from both characters in 武俠. He stopped to write about 武; the fights and duels are just descriptions or there is just the outcome. Then the 俠 is replaced with triad philosophy. In Ancient China, 俠 is different as we recognize it from popular culture. There is a bit of contradiction in Gu Long’s portrayal of this character. Is he going back to the roots of this concept of the past? In that aspect 俠客 are not always admirable people (using a modern moralistic view and also modern wuxia lens). This is really my personal preference; I don’t like ‘cop films or cop shows’ (unless it is Angie Tribeca). I never liked Hong Kong’s Infernal Affairs and I did not like the CSI shows (I know it is blasphemy). So for Gu Long to reinvent modern triad situations in an ancient costume situation was not a success formula for me. For example, Heroes without Tears or 白玉老虎 and 大地飛鷹 are books I read with difficulty and at times I felt l wanted to abandon finishing the novel.

These are just my views and feel free to take them with a pinch of salt (feel free to use buckets of salt).

I agree with you in many respects. What did you think of 天涯明月刀 though? I felt it was a very complete novel in any respects.

[tape]

GL's works and characters are very seasonal for me -- after a breakup and during winter, Li Xunhuan is my hero, but I won't touch his story during the summer.

When you're in the same frame of mind as Gu Long he can't be beat, but if you're not then it's not very appealing.

[ToastedRossi]

I'm on a bit of a love-hate relationship with Gu Long's writing. When he's on, he has some of the best story hooks I've ever encountered in fiction, he's got interesting characters, and really neat scenarios. When he's off, he's way overly preachy, his characters sound hollow, and his books don't have a real ending.

It verges more on hate than love at the moment, and it's because the last books I read from him are 护花铃 and the third Chu Liuxiang novel. The former feels like Gu Long didn't feel like writing it any more so he just wrapped it up in a dozen pages and called it an ending, and the latter ticked me off in a lot of ways. It's too bad because the later Chu Liuxiang stories sound interesting and I wanted to read all of them in order.

I think some impressions on his earlier and later works would be that he moved away from the standard wuxia structure. His stories became more character driven than plot driven. The personalities of his protagonists are the highlights of some of his works such as in Lu Xiaofeng and Li Xunhuan. Generally, these protagonists are really fascinating characters. Truth be told, I don’t always like the characterization of his characters. Li Xunhuan is certainly not a favourite of mine; in fact there are very few characters I do like in the Flying Dagger Li. On the other hand, Lu Xiaofeng is written very well: comical, smart but also flawed. Furthermore, there are also some commonalities that his protagonists share: talented (but misunderstood); love for alcohol; fond of beautiful women; cynical towards life; possessing sarcastic wit; yet not completely devoid of a sense of right or wrong. Maybe, those are some of the traits Gu Long has himself and he projects those traits (subconsciously) in his work. He wouldn’t be the first author who did that and he wouldn’t be the last.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I dropped "the Sentimental Swordsman" ages ago because I realized that I hated all the characters. Maybe I should check out the Liu Xiaofeng stories instead. (Please don't let them be preachy)

In short, I enjoyed reading all of Gu Long’s novels. They were part of my summer (or holiday) readings; indulgences and escapisms to a younger period in my life. There are some books which are better than others, but that is true with Jin Yong as well. However, I think I am pretty much done with wuxia as a genre. I don't think I will start reading another author of wuxia anymore. I have read two of Liang Yusheng’s novels and I don’t think I will be starting to read his other books anytime soon. Wuxia made me understand my own cultural heritage and I also learnt more about the Chinese language through reading (wuxia). I am very grateful that this genre exists and I am also eternally grateful for Jin Yong's and Gu Long's creativity for creating these wonderful stories for us.

I agree. I've read three Liang Yusheng novels and I feel that that's enough. I have no idea why people would say that he's better than Jin Yong.

I've also read a bit of Huang Yi, and I feel that his writing skill is not up there with his seniors. However, he does come up with interesting ideas, so he's somewhat worth reading. One of these days, I'm going to finish "Twin Dragons of the Tang Dynasty" even though that book is way too long for its own good (and it does tries to do something really odd). Right now, I've been reading a ton of Yue Guan's history novels and they've been amazing! He doesn't write wuxia, but they're just bursting with historical flavor.

[mawguy]

@ren wo xing IMHO 天涯明月刀 is one of GL's best written novels. it's at least worth the read, even if you don't end up sharing my opinion about it.

@toastedrossi i've read all 7 of the CLX novels--i think the 1st 3 are the best. the LXF books are definitely worth the read--they're not all stellar, but he and the cast of secondary characters are a lot of fun to become familiar with. and the series is less preachy overall than some of GL's other works. i also despise DQJKWQJ.

[ToastedRossi]

@ren wo xing IMHO 天涯明月刀 is one of GL's best written novels. it's at least worth the read, even if you don't end up sharing my opinion about it.

This and 蕭十一郎 are on the list of Gu Long novels I'm still looking forward to reading one day. I might end up rereading the Legendary Twins as well.

@toastedrossi i've read all 7 of the CLX novels--i think the 1st 3 are the best. the LXF books are definitely worth the read--they're not all stellar, but he and the cast of secondary characters are a lot of fun to become familiar with. and the series is less preachy overall than some of GL's other works.

Ouch. The first book was good, but I hated about half the things about Shi Guanyin and I still have trouble imagining a writer horrid enough to produce something like the Water Matron. Honestly, the worst thing about Gu Long is when he starts preaching about women; it utterly kills whatever momentum the story has. Writers like Huang Yi are much less skillful, but they're also a lot more readable because they don't go to those extents of terribleness. And you're saying that the other books are worse? How is that possible? I have a rough idea what happens in them and they seem rather interesting whereas The Thrush had nothing going for it.

i also despise DQJKWQJ.

Wait, if everyone hates Sentimental Swordsman, then why is it so popular? Is it just because of that song?

[Athena]

I enjoyed 天涯明月刀; it was one of the last Gu Long novels on my list. It is one of the later titles which still followed a rather classic wuxia setting. I was not a big fan of Fu Hongxue in 邊城浪子, but in this novel he rather shone. It was nice to see that progression from that revenge-bent youngster to a melancholic drifter. I liked the ending and it didn’t feel forced as some of Gu Long’s later novels. If time and interest allows, reading 邊城浪子 before天涯明月刀 might help to appreciate Fu Hongxue as a protagonist.

Although I like Lu Xiaofeng, I do find him a rather sloppy detective. In some of the adventures, he is hired (tricked) to help out with something, but due to machinations of the antagonist some innocent lives are still lost. At times, it couldn’t help but to wonder about(question) Lu Xiaofeng’s detective skills.

多情劍客無情劍 is rather controversial. Directors and script writers have to take liberties to adapt this novel. There are almost no fighting scenes in this novel. There is only an outcome (dagger or sword through the throat). I don’t understand the motivations of the antagonists. I find the protagonists very unsympathetic; I don’t care about both Li Xunhuan and A Fei.

[mawguy]

Ouch. The first book was good, but I hated about half the things about Shi Guanyin and I still have trouble imagining a writer horrid enough to produce something like the Water Matron.

oh, ha, well... GL is a mysogynist. there's no polite way of saying it. you really have to turn a blind eye to his female characters. they are flat characters, either evil or ****ty or both, and don't do much besides sleep with the guys and fail the bechdel test. you should only focus on the male characters, if you're able. but if the female portrayals really bother you, well, there aren't that many stories you'd care to read! 蕭十一郎 does have a stronger female character who isn't evil, but she's still a bit 2D.

Wait, if everyone hates Sentimental Swordsman, then why is it so popular? Is it just because of that song?

i don't think everyone hates DQJKWQJ, and i certainly wouldn't dare say that i speak for anyone else! like athena said, i don't find the characters sympathetic, i don't care for their plight, and i think the whole world-against-me thing is even worse than the ordeal JY's xiao feng went through in TLBB. and i find LXH one of th most annoying protagonists ever. but that's just me.

[mawguy]

Although I like Lu Xiaofeng, I do find him a rather sloppy detective. In some of the adventures, he is hired (tricked) to help out with something, but due to machinations of the antagonist some innocent lives are still lost. At times, it couldn’t help but to wonder (question) Lu Xiaofeng’s detective skills.

ROTFL! he's a horrible detective! but that's not the point of this character, really. i find that GL's various protagonists are just facets of his ideal of manliness. if you put them through the meat processor and baked them in the oven until well done, they might, as a whole, resemble a real person. :P

[ToastedRossi]

I enjoyed 天涯明月刀; it was one of the last Gu Long novels on my list. It is one of the later titles which still followed a rather classic wuxia setting. I was not a big fan of Fu Hongxue in 邊城浪子, but in this novel he rather shone. It was nice to see that progression from that revenge-bent youngster to a melancholic drifter. I liked the ending and it didn’t feel forced as some of Gu Long’s later novels. If time and interest allows, reading 邊城浪子 before天涯明月刀 might help to appreciate Fu Hongxue as a protagonist.

That actually sounds pretty promising. I don't know if the earlier book seems very necessary though.

oh, ha, well... GL is a mysogynist. there's no polite way of saying it. you really have to turn a blind eye to his female characters. they are flat characters, either evil or ****ty or both, and don't do much besides sleep with the guys and fail the bechdel test. you should only focus on the male characters, if you're able. but if the female portrayals really bother you, well, there aren't that many stories you'd care to read! 蕭十一郎 does have a stronger female character who isn't evil, but she's still a bit 2D.

Yeah, I knew about Gu Long's problem with female characters, but I thought that the worst it got was someone like Lin Xian'er. I never knew how much more terrible Shi Guanyin and especially the poor Water Matron would be. No one ever warned me about this kind of thing!

Basically, a certain level of badness is to be expected and can be tolerated, but Gu Long pushes way too hard with those.

i don't think everyone hates DQJKWQJ, and i certainly wouldn't dare say that i speak for anyone else! like athena said, i don't find the characters sympathetic, i don't care for their plight, and i think the whole world-against-me thing is even worse than the ordeal JY's xiao feng went through in TLBB. and i find LXH one of th most annoying protagonists ever. but that's just me.

I'm just having trouble finding anyone with something positive to say about that book! I gave up reading the Sentimental Swordsman almost twenty years ago, but I still remember how much I just wanted everything to end. It felt like all the heroes deserved all the misery they received and that the villains were just as irritating.

[mawguy]

@toastedrossi really! most of the people i've talked about DQJKWQJ to like the story--or maybe they only know the adaptation versions, which are definitely more toned down. and agree with you that the heroes deserve their misery--it's definitely self-inflicted in the case of LXH. majority of the time i was reading the story, i just wanted to slap him and tell him to grow a backbone.

while you would get a more complete picture of FHX's background if you read BCLZ first, it's actually a mediocre story. TYMYD is a fairly complete and self-contained story, even if it's part of the loosely connected dagger li series. i don't think you'd feel bothered by the references to other stories.

[PJ]

I'm probably the least GL-read person to join this discussion, but GL is a rare topic here so I'll chime in

I read the beginning of one of his early novels (Poisonous Sword, Fragrant Plum). Other than some interesting feats, I found the writing comically sloppy. No character development or memorable characters, things just happen and I couldn't care less. Not sure if it gets better later, but I was too bored to continue. I imagine he tried to make it interesting but just didn't have the skill.

It's a good thing he developed his famous niche style later.