Sword vs. Saber

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by Zhang San Feng
i disagree... sword is both harder to master, sabre is easier to master...as to learning...that all depends on ur wu xing...but generally sword is always harder because its double edged...

If we're to discuss about sword and sabre in the realm of wuxia, what Han Solo stated is actually correct. Since I did remember somewhere in GL's Novels stating the same thing, I think it was Full Moon Curved Sabre(can't remember it really well).

[TaiHan]

I have just read over LOCH.

And Jin Yong stated practicing sabre take 100 days, practicing spear take 1,000 days, and practicing sword take 10,000 days.

So I guess in JY's universe, sword is consider both a supreme weapon and a hard weapon to master.

[GiftOfForesight]

Originally posted by Han Solo
I am defintinely wrong but i thought that
1) Sword: Slashes and cuts
2) Saber: Hack and Thrust

Anyway, since a sword have two edged surfaces, it would be more flexible hence more offensive orientated enabling a practitioner to kill easier.

While a saber have only one edged surface, hence it is harder to kill.

Therefore, sword is easier to master than saber.

I agree that the sword ismore slashing and cutting and the saber more hacking, but there is definitely more thrusting in sword technique than in saber.

Personally, I believe the sword is harder to master and learn (due to it's flexibility and ability to perform more feats), while the saber is mostly hacking.

Personally, I prefer the sword fighter for the flair, flexibility, and agility involved.

[Crazy8]

i like both.
i think sabers are harder to master because one must first need to be able to wield the saber. not everyone can wield the saber but anyone can wield the sword. sabers are heavier and the moves focuses on circlelar movement. not anyone that can do a circlelar movement with the saber can attack or block the oppnt. if one is not strong enough an attack can mean a chance for the oppnt to attack back with double the speed, and a block with the saber can mean nothing if the person is not strong enough to reflect the oppnt's weapon. swords movements are more complex and every hit with it have the same amount of power. i think with the right person weilding either of the weapons i think they both can look nice.

[SkineePanda]

By the Tang era, sabres have replaced swords in the armies. Swords are only reserved for generals and officers. Its because generally the sabre is much easier to learn and master. And a much more reliable weapon. The thin double-edged blade of the sword cannot withstand an impact coming from a sabre. Nor is it a better weapon on horseback, when slashing movements of the sabre is prefered. I also heard the Japanese say that with double-edged swords there is more shock on impact with another weapon compared to a single edged weapon. And don't underestimate the sabre techniques, they are alot more versatile than it seems. Together with the spear, I say they are the most underrated weapons in wuxia stories.

[Han Solo]

I think a distinction must be made between learning (i.e. basics) and mastering (i.e. perfecting).

And Jin Yong stated practicing sabre take 100 days, practicing spear take 1,000 days, and practicing sword take 10,000 days.

Does this refer to learning or mastering?

So I guess in JY's universe, sword is consider both a supreme weapon and a hard weapon to master.

That is correct. In JY's universe, sword ranks second to deceit.
But once the person progress enough, usually a weapon will not confer additional advantage. (see GJ, YG, QF, DY, YD, XZ, etc)

[Mr. Mok]

I don't know if an analysis on sword or sabre can be made based on real life if this is a Wuxia discussion.Maybe a comparision can be made to the beginners in the Wuxia world since the beginners don't have all those high sword Chi(Kim hei) powers.

Let's just say it is a good quality sword and not those easily found in the market that break easily,it also helps because the long thin straight sword allows flexibility and mobility more than a sabre.With enough flexibility,one can end the fight quickly by taking the life of the few opponents through carefully placed stabs and slashes at vital organs.


The loss of an eye may cause the opponent to panic if you do not wish to kill.Fights against multiple opponents armed with machetes will cause the sword to break easily due to the heavier steel in machetes when there's impact with a sword provided their machetes are heavy and of also good quality.However a highly skilled sword fighter might win if he keeps on avoiding the machetes from impacting with the swords by quickly aiming for the all the opponents vital points in a quick matter of time

The heavy sabre requires some muscle strength to wield it effectively.But any slash of the wide single-edged sabre can cause a really bloody scar.Impact of anyone's weapon against a sabre will not cause the sabre to break as easily as a sword.Also particularly useful to chop of the limbs of opponents.But against a number of armed opponents with machetes who intend to slash and chop your limbs off as well,I just don't know.

[TaiHan]

Originally posted by Han Solo
I think a distinction must be made between learning (i.e. basics) and mastering (i.e. perfecting).



Does this refer to learning or mastering?

It just say practicing. It didn't say anything about basic or advance. but after that quote, it said that in sword's technique is really hard to achieve the highest level. Or I guess the highest level of understanding of sword's technique.

[turning plam]

I'm a traditional martial art practitioner. For the weapons, I currently study sword & spear, however, I'm "a bit" familiar with sabre & staff movements. Basically, traditional Chinese standard weapons are categorized into one of the 4 weapons: sword, sabre, staff, and spear. Each one have its own adventage. In the martial art society, they said

staff is the father of the long weapons, spear is the king of the long weapons.
sabre is the father of the short weapons, sword is the king of the short weapons.
HOWEVER, some said (including my master) that the spear is the king of all weapons (seriously...but in Wuxia novel, the spear is underrated).

Technically, comparing 2 martial arts who use 2 different weapons with the same level of the skill of their chosen weapons.

spear will beat staff (spear techniques are more powerful than staff techniques).
both spear & staff will beat sword & sabre (long weapons are more powerful than the short weapons if there is enough fighting space)
sword & sabre are quite equal, i.e., cannot say which one is better. (will explain more below)

As I told you above, I assume that both fighters' skill on their weapons are equal. In other words, the skillful sabre fighter can beat the staff fighter with less skill. This also depend on the fighting environment too (sword & sabre will beat staff in a reasonable small room). In my school, long spear is considered to be the most dangerous weapon & the hardest in practice. However, from my personal experience, they are all hard :P (in different ways through different types of strength, techniques, and concentration. Nevertheless, the long (10-12 feet) spear practice seems to be extreme in all conditions). Since I'm a lazy guy and it will take a whole page to explain how (& how hard) the practice, I will skip my explanation on this part.

Technical-wise (roughly), sword & spear share many similar types of techniques. This same go for sabre & staff. It is common (at least in my school) that the one who like spear will favor sword and the one who like staff will also favor sabre. To be more specific, the "major" techniques of sword & spear are "thrusting" while using the "circular" motion as their "shield" but this motion will never "rolling" around the practitioner's body. On the other hands, the "major" techniques of sabre & staff is "slashing" (cutting, hacking, etc. --- I consider to be the similar types of techniques). These weapons (sabre & staff) also use the "circular" motion and a lot of this motion are rolling around the practitioner's body. Briefly, the circles of sword & spear are harder to see than sabre & staff (from the people who watch outside since the good sabre man will not let his opponent "see" anything that his opponent need to see --- same go for the sword).

HOWEVER, sword & spear also have the slashing technique and sabre & staff also have the thrusting technique...but it is not the "major" (or famous) character of those weapons. Let take sword as an example, the sword basic that I practice have 15 moves called 5+5+5. The 1st 5 are the slashing/cutting techniques in different directions. The 2nd 5 are the major sword techniques including thrusting/point-striking/etc. and most of these techniques are also included in the spear major techniques. The 3rd 5 are the cicular technique using for the defense which can immediately go to the offense technique (the 1st & 2nd 5 are all offense). Moreover, each of 15 moves is not fixed move and there are a few (some many) variations of each move. Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with the sabre techniques so I don't want to say much (although I see people practice sabre all the times and I also practice one type of sabre called miao dao -- it looks similar to the japanese sword except longer). Nevertheless, from my opinion, I see many similarities between sword and sabre movements. Only thing is that "the way to execute" & "the strategy" of the sabre are different from those of the sword. (see below)

Sword vs Sabre ::

They said "Sabre likes the fierce tiger" and "Sword likes the flying (female) phoenix". Sabre uses aggressive+strength to overcome the opponent. This is NOT the brute force but the part of sabre strategy, for example, the sabre man will usually not let the opponent "see" his sabre (this is one of the reason why they always "roll" sabre around their body). Sword uses more speed/footwork (flying phoenix) & subtle (female = unpredictable ^^) technique to overcome the opponent and sword spirit is very very aggressive (on the other hand, while sabre position is usually hidden from the opponent, sword position are usually in the front of the swordman). Sabre is designed to be able to violently block the opponent's weapon and even cut through the armor (as part of its technique). Sword will NEVER block the opponent's weapon DIRECTLY. Sword will use the circular motion in the "block" (with the spear power in the high level skill and, if the skill is high enough together with the right timing, it can make the opponent's weapon out of his/her hand) or "don't block at all" (as the way LHC used, in SOD. Therefore, LHC's DGQB techniques is nothing but the "typical" sword technique+ some of JY's imagination).

To conclude, I would like to mention that the sword & sabre fight is not long (= sword vs sword, sword vs sabre, sabre vs sabre). It can be as fast as the time required for japanese sword fighting. Let me give you one example through my senior's experience. He practices sabre and my master ask him fight with his friend who use sword as the part of the practice. First, he looked down the sword technique and think his sabre is more powerful. When the fight start (sparring to be correct), with a split second, his friend's sword thrust to my senior's chest from nowhere and the sparring is end (together with my senior's attitude on the sword). This is just an example to show that the sword/sabre fight can end in less than a few second. In fact, fighting in 200-300 moves only happens in Wuxia novels. Any of the real fighting (especially with skillful fighters including skillful vs skillful fighters) will not take very long time to finish.

Hopefully my writing is helpful. I'm lazy now and I'll stop here.

[CC]

I would agree that on the battlefield, the spear is the king of the weapons.

Even the samurai, with all that katana/sword nonsense favoured the spear in a real battlefield fight.

[Doughboy]

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post.

A generalization that I was told that may or may not be true:

Sword - Gentlemen, scholars
Saber - Bodyguards, soldiers
Staff - Laymen
Spear - Generals

Power and speed are the primary concerns when practicing saber because it should be fierce, like a tiger. Whereas for a sword, in addition to power and speed, one also needs grace and fluidity in order to demonstrate finesse, like a flying phoenix.

Saber stances are usually wide and open, whereas sword can involve a lot of subtle movements, which are more difficult and time-consuming to achieve.

I was also told by my teacher that "100 days for saber and 1000 days for sword."

[rabadi]

Hi Doughboy, just want to say welcome to the forum.