NBA Discussion

[Long]

Originally posted by Meh
1. Coach K apparently is thinking about the Lakers position.

2. If the Rockets sign Barry, it would mean that the Houston's backcourt will be just as tall as the forwards: Barry 6-6, T-Mac 6-8, Jim Jackson 6-6, Juwan Howard 6-8. Pretty weird...

1. I reckon the Lakers would do better than sticking with Rudy T. He's a great coach and knows how to win at NBA level. I'm not dissing Coach K, but ain't many good college coaches who have made a good transition to the NBA.

2. Juwan Howard actually stands at 6'10. If Houston gets Brent Barry to play at PG, I guess Rockets can become a fierce defensive team that gives opposition PGs and SGs a though look at the basket from outside.

[spooks]

Krzyzewski has rejected the position. Interesting to see who GM Bryant wants as the coach now.

[James Ko]

I think that is a smart move on Coach K's part not to take up the Lakers job... Phil Jackson always leave a mess (look at Bulls for example).

Also Krzyzewski has a great place in the Blue Devils's den. The program loves him, fans loves him, players across the nations wants to be coach by him. I don't think LA will provide him with that much love.

[Long]

Excellent move by coach K. Lakers get a 'lucky' break. They should stick with pursuing after Rudy T.

[spooks]

Lakers will pursue whoever Kobe tells them too. It's the sad truth but Buss will do anything to keep Kobe in town.

[Long]

Well if anything is going to bring the Lakers down it's 'sort sightedness' and 'bad management'. Seems as if LA is heading that way. I for one can't figure out why they're listening so much to Kobe Bryant......

He's a player and players, whilst they are playing, can be blinded. Kobe in the NBA Finals was 'blinded' by his own ego. Now Buss is handing him the 'franchise' to him on a plater.

I don't understand.

If Kobe has proven anything so far is that he lacks, maturity, wisdom, and intelligence. After all why would someone of his stature, with a wife and kid, get himself invovled with another lady that they file a 'rape' charge against him.

Had he been 'wise' off the basketball court this would have never happened. Had he been 'wise' on the court the Lakers would have won the 2004 NBA Finals. It's simple as that. How can you trust someone like that to make decisions for the 'franchise'. He may be a great player, but that's all he is. But as good as he is. His ego demonstrates that he can LOSE even when he should WIN.

[James Ko]

I heard Rudy T wants both Shaq and Kobe to be in LA... he believe he can mend the relationship between the two.... which could happen.

But I always thought the reason why Rudy T quit coaching in houston because of health problem.... why is he coming back to coach and taking the heat in LA. Kind of make me wonder if Rockets let him go and made this story up of him having health problem instead of firing him.

As for Kobe... he never had College experience which I think is very valuable knowledge if players go thru it. I think Kobe might have been spoil to win 3 championship at a young age where he was develop to have this huge ego.... also playing in LA does that to you when people praise you when you win.

[Long]

Well. I have just bought the "Lakers Dynasty" series on DVD.

Can't wait to watch the 1980 game 6 performance by Magic Johnson. Also can't wait to watch how the "Showtime" Lakers tear their opposition apart with pure team work.

[spooks]

Kobe continues to meet management of other teams. Has already met with Nuggets GM, Spurs/Clippers meeting expected this week.

Some other NBA news/rumors.

1) Okur has reached a verbal agreement with Utah.

2) Miami/Magic trade talk. Butler for Gooden and DeClercq

[TrieuTuLong]

According to Espn, if coach K accepted the coaching job in LA, he would be the richest coach in any sports with 40 mils over 5 years.
I really don't understand the LA management. The Lakers refused to offer Phil Jackson, who is still one of the best coach in NBA right now, a contract 30 mil over 5 year, but willingly reward coach K who is unproven in the NBA, with a better contract. What the heck is the Lakers management thinking? I hope the Lakers better sign Kobe this off-season and hopefully Kobe will lead them to the promise land again soon. Failing one of those things above, their fans will never let owners forget, this mistake, even in their sleeps.

[Long]

Originally posted by TrieuTuLong
I really don't understand the LA management.

I agree here. I don't really understand Lakers management under Mitch Kuphcak, and am beginning to side with Shaq more and more as the days go by.

In simpler days, with Jerry West in control, Mr Basketball always makes the right moves. He would have assessed the following:

1. Kobe's self-fishness and behaviour off the court is attracting trouble. As the saying goes, when one reaches for the 'cookie' jar, they'll do it more often then once.

2. Kobe's selfish play costed the Lakers a 4th Championship in 2000+. This is very disturbing given the Lakers should have never lost. You don't see MJ throwing titles away. 6 from 6.

4. Kobe and Shaq don't get along. 1 of them has to go.

5. There are ample of SGs around the league who are capable of playing the 2 man role to assist Shaq.

6. Kobe could have got much more money in a 'sign and trade' scenario. Talk him into one. Either way he's best money is with LA.

Moves:

1. If West was the GM today he would have probably shipped Kobe Bryant to the Raptors for Vince Carter, plus two future 1st round draft picks. Or to Philly for Iverson under the same scenario. Why? Because getting Iverson or Carter + other players is decent enough to help Shaq who has 3 years of dominance left. Plus Carter and Iverson are still relatively young, though not as young as Kobe. But as long as you can pinch draft picks, you never know what's around the corner. Then you're hoping that Kobe + very little means that the team he has been dealt to will be lottery bound. THat's how LA got Mgic Johnson and James Worthy with the No. 1 pick. Through trades and draft picks. This has happened were the Lakers have pinched No. and high draft picks in the past.

2. Jerry would have re-signed Phil Jackson. If not he would have hired Rudy T. I don't understand this Coach K thing. Haven't the NBA learnt from Rick Patino????? Good college coach only.

3. Lakers have always been successful building around a C. Why start with a SG with a dodgy 'off court' record now??

Shaq situtation.

1. Managed in the right way Shaq would hvae taken a pay-cut.

2. No one is going to respond to the tactic of, "hey Shaq, you're fat and over weight. Your production is declining. You probably only have 3 years left. Please take a pay cut". Would anyone take a pay-cut if they were told this???

3. Jerry West would have said, "Shaq, mate we love you. You have 3 championship rings, do you want 12 and be better than Bill Russell? Be known as the GREATEST MoST DOMINATING CHAMP?? We know you're hurting mate, and that you need to rest. So we're gonna get you more help. But we can't because of salary cap constraints.(hint..... hint..... hint....).

4. In continuation to 3, Shaq would have said, "Yeah! I love championships! I'm about winning! I want more! Why don't I take a pay cut so we can get more quality players to LA. Maybe they can give me a breather. I can rest and then dominate in the play-offs".

5. West in response to 4, nodds his head and smiles, "Shaq that's great. You're a team man. you're the man".

I CAN ONLY DREAM.

DAM BUSS AND KUPCHAK..... DAM KOBE BRYANT... DAM THAT SKINNY STICK...

[spooks]

Originally posted by TrieuTuLong

I really don't understand the LA management. The Lakers refused to offer Phil Jackson, who is still one of the best coach in NBA right now, a contract 30 mil over 5 year, but willingly reward coach K who is unproven in the NBA, with a better contract. What the heck is the Lakers management thinking?

Kobe wants to play for Krzyzewski, he hates Phil. That's why Buss will pay Krzyzewski and not Phil. Also Jackson was asking for between 10-12 million per year not 6.

If West was the GM today he would have probably shipped Kobe Bryant to the Raptors for Vince Carter, plus two future 1st round draft picks. Or to Philly for Iverson under the same scenario

VC/Iverson + 2 first rounders would never happen. If it did those picks would be lottery protected. Kobe for 2 injury prone players + mid round picks is a bad trade. Kobe would never want to play for the Raptors or Sixers either.

[LuNaR]

well kobe = popular, u can expect a full stadium of kobe fan every game, think about how much $ that is. also kobe's selfishness has ups and downs, but shaq's freethrow is plain terrible, look at the way he shoots. i heard derek fisher goin to houston??? i would give shaq for webber christies and bobby tho ( maybe bibby too i forgot wat the deal was)

[LuNaR]

cant agree more with spooks... 2 "injured prone players" and 2 average players is not worth a kobe. and iverson is juss as much of a ball hog as kobe... u can even see dis year, they hav glen robinson who supposedly is an all star yet he still ball hogs.i remember seeing his 2-22 and 3-16 and 2-18 and 1-11 shooting days, he makes basketball look bad. althought ythere are a few exicting plays from him ( also from kobe) like sum dunks or sumthin, but his fg percent is not worth it. and all i got to say about vince carter is dat he ould never be as good as he was before and will prob get injured after the 1st 5 games.

[Long]

Originally posted by LuNaR
well kobe = popular, u can expect a full stadium of kobe fan every game, think about how much $ that is. also kobe's selfishness has ups and downs, but shaq's freethrow is plain terrible, look at the way he shoots. i heard derek fisher goin to houston??? i would give shaq for webber christies and bobby tho ( maybe bibby too i forgot wat the deal was)

Shaq = NBA Finals appearances (5 in his career) and Championships (3).

Dominating player in the play-offs despite his poor foul shooting.

As a fan = I like to see CHampionships = not dodgy little skinny stickmen running around and playing selfishly.

I wouldn't hate Kobe so much if he didn't stink so badly in the NBA finals. What capped it off was he took very little responsibility for the losses.

[Long]

Originally posted by spooks
Kobe for 2 injury prone players + mid round picks is a bad trade. Kobe would never want to play for the Raptors or Sixers either.

he's willing to play for Clippers for gods sakes. besides Jerry West is a smoothe and could probably talk people into anything. Don't count him out. He did lift the Grizzlies franchise to the play-offs after all didn't he?????


Also I was using VC and IA as an example only because they're the oly respectable SGs left. Had LA moved earlier they could have taken T-Mac. That would have been my prefered option. Sahq/T-Mac.

I don't like Kobe and don't think much of him anymore. So just surrond SHaq with half decent players and you'll win. That's my belief. Who out there can stop Shaq apart from 'himself'. Yao is the only one that comes to mind. Maybe Duncan....

Who can stop Kobe? Hell even Prince can..... That's the difference for me...... Kobe can self destruct as well.... on and off the court.

[spooks]

Originally posted by Long
Shaq = NBA Finals appearances (5 in his career) and Championships (3).

Dominating player in the play-offs despite his poor foul shooting.

As a fan = I like to see CHampionships = not dodgy little skinny stickmen running around and playing selfishly.

I wouldn't hate Kobe so much if he didn't stink so badly in the NBA finals. What capped it off was he took very little responsibility for the losses.

You make it sound as if Kobe didn't contribute in those championship runs.

they hav glen robinson who supposedly is an all star yet he still ball hogs

Glen Robinson is a joke. The guy is the biggest blackhole in the league, plays with less effort on defense than Shaq.

I've always thought players in positions like AI and T-Mac jacked up 25+ out of necessity not because they intentionally wanted to. Watch AI during the Olympics and tell me he doesn't want to pass.

[TrieuTuLong]

I don't deny Kobe's talent though, as matter of fact, I still think that Kobe is one of the best shooting guard in this league a long with T-Mac. However, I think Kobe is trying too hard to prove that he's the best player in this league or in this game ever, therefore, he couldn't stand the fact that Laker is Shaq's team even though, they had so many championships together.

Talking about championship, unlike Micheal Jordans, Kobe won 3 championships in a relatively young ages, on the other hand, Micheal didn't win his first championship until he was a totally mature player, and until he understood completely how much hard works he had to put in to finally get one. While in Kobe's situation, these championships came to him easily, eventually this fed his ego bigger everyday, and then, the worst of this, made him take everything including winning another championship for granted. Therefore, the only goal left for Kobe to accomplish as a player is to be the best player in the game just like MJ, and he understood that he would never achieve this goal if he plays with Shaq who is lableled the most dominant force in the NBA, and he is trying to prove everyone that he can win without Shaq by opting out his contract to become a free agent in this offseason.

However, I think he forgot one thing though. He needs to look at T-mac, Jason Kidds, Iverson's situations.... all of them have on thing common is they are all superstar PG and SG which are very simular playing position to Kobe's position, but none of them has ever won championship because unfortunately, they never has a big guy like Shaq around. Statically except for the Detroit Piston, teams won championship in the last 8 years in the NBA all have dominant big guys (houston with Hakeen, Lakers with Shaq, San Antonion with Robinson and Duncan), besides, good Center is hard to find than a good guard in this league.

[Moinllieon]

Originally posted by TrieuTuLong
However, I think he forgot one thing though. He needs to look at T-mac, Jason Kidds, Iverson's situations.... all of them have on thing common is they are all superstar PG and SG which are very simular playing position to Kobe's position, but none of them has ever won championship because unfortunately, they never has a big guy like Shaq around. Statically except for the Detroit Piston, teams won championship in the last 8 years in the NBA all have dominant big guys (houston with Hakeen, Lakers with Shaq, San Antonion with Robinson and Duncan), besides, good Center is hard to find than a good guard in this league.

You can extend that claim much further to say that besides the MJ-led Bulls (especially the 2nd time around), EVERY NBA Champion EVER has had at least a credible prescence down the middle. I say that Ben Wallace is a credible force because, after all, he did start the NBA All-Star game at center did he not? He was invited to be on the Dream Team was he not? Trieu listed the last 8 champions, but you can take it even further. Before that the Pistons had Mahorn and Lambeer, Lakers had Kareem, Celtics had Parrish (and McHale), Sixers had Moses Malone, Bullets had Wes Unseld, Blazers had Walton (before the injuries), Bucks had Alcidor (before the name change), Warriors had Thompson, Knicks had Reed, Lakers had Chamberlain, Sixers had Chamberlain, Celtics had Russel, and so on and so on (the original dynasty, Minnesota Lakers had Mikan!).

And no, I don't consider the holy-trinity of Perdue, Longley, and Wennington credible.

Cartwright, on the otherhand, was pretty good on his day. Gotta give him that one.

Clearly, basketball is a big-man's game (the little men just help them along).

[Eliar Swiftfire]

They had Rodman, who was as good as any center