NBA Discussion

[Moinllieon]

Originally posted by Eliar Swiftfire
They had Rodman, who was as good as any center

At rebounding. They certainly didn't put him on Ewing or Robinson or Shaq did they?

[- L1n -]

lol see houston has another thing coming right now after T-Mac the next highest paid players r all power forwards, in mo, juwan, clarence. Where's yao's salary once his contract comes to an nd houston would need to export some members in order to keep yao. They r so lucky yao is currently on a low budget contract, otherwise t mac would only be a dream lol.

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Originally posted by Moinllieon
At rebounding. They certainly didn't put him on Ewing or Robinson or Shaq did they?

Actaully, I do remember them putting him on Shaq.

[Moinllieon]

Originally posted by Eliar Swiftfire
Actaully, I do remember them putting him on Shaq.

Must have been during a "hack-a-Shaq" moment. Perdue and Longley only have so many fouls between them.

[ROI]

Also I was using VC and IA as an example only because they're the oly respectable SGs left. Had LA moved earlier they could have taken T-Mac. That would have been my prefered option. Sahq/T-Mac.

Lakers management must now regret taking up the position of keeping Kobe or go bust. They probably realize how stupid it was getting themselves into a position where they had no choices. If they hadn't burned bridges with Shaq, they would have easily gotten T-Mac for Kobe in a sign and trade.

[spooks]

Originally posted by Long
he's willing to play for Clippers for gods sakes. besides Jerry West is a smoothe and could probably talk people into anything. Don't count him out. He did lift the Grizzlies franchise to the play-offs after all didn't he?????

Also I was using VC and IA as an example only because they're the oly respectable SGs left

Who can stop Kobe? Hell even Prince can..... That's the difference for me...... Kobe can self destruct as well.... on and off the court.

Don't underestimate the Clippers they have a damn good core to build around. Maggette is a star at SF, Brand = Jermaine O'Neal. They decent young center in Kaman. 2 bigs loaded with potential coming off the bench or used as trade bait to get other pieces in Wilcox and Ely. Just drafted Livingston. Why wouldn't Kobe want to play for the Clippers it's a perfect place for him.

Brand doesn't need touches, he's as effective crashing the boards off of missed shots (and there will be plenty of those if Kobe joins the Clippers).

Only respectable SGs left are VC and AI eh? PP and Ray Allen are both on the market and I'd take both over VC/AI

Prince is a great perimeter defender. Quick laterally with freakishly long arms. Has stopped the 2 premier SGs the last 2 playoffs. How can that be used to criticize Kobe? the same can be said about T-Mac.

[Moinllieon]

The Clippers have always drafted well (not spectacular, but solid). Their problem is two fold:

1) Bad luck. They had the number 1 pick in 1988 and 1998, got Danny Manning and Olowokandi out of it. The Spurs had the number 1 pick in 1989 and 1999, got David Robinson and Tim Duncan out of it.

2) They can't hold on to their players. Ron Harper, Lamar Odom, Antonio McDyess (didn't they trade him?) all left as soon as they can. It's what happens when you have lost for so long, I guess.

[James Ko]

Clippers should moved out of LA. No one seems to want to stay there. They are always playing in the shadow of the Lakers.

When was the last time they make it to the playoff... losing season after season don't make players a popular place to stay.

[Meh]

Originally posted by Moinllieon
The Clippers have always drafted well (not spectacular, but solid). Their problem is two fold:

1) Bad luck. They had the number 1 pick in 1988 and 1998, got Danny Manning and Olowokandi out of it. The Spurs had the number 1 pick in 1989 and 1999, got David Robinson and Tim Duncan out of it.

2) They can't hold on to their players. Ron Harper, Lamar Odom, Antonio McDyess (didn't they trade him?) all left as soon as they can. It's what happens when you have lost for so long, I guess.

They can't hold on to those players because Sterling won't pay for them. Until Brand's max extension, the biggest contract of a Clipper was Erik Piatkowski, at 5 yrs $15 mil. That alone should tell you what a joke the franchise is.

As for their draft, all of them sucked. They had Dirk and traded him to Dallas for Robert Traylor. They picked McDyess only to trade him for Brent Barry and a couple of scrubs, and that was the draft where Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace, and Garnett went 3-5. They picked Olawokandi even though they have NEVER been able to develop any player, over the NBA-ready Mike Bibby. Listing Clippers draft failures is so easy it's not even funny. They suck so badly that people would the Clippers on TV just to hear Bill Walton makes fun of them the whole game.

[Moinllieon]

Originally posted by Meh
They can't hold on to those players because Sterling won't pay for them. Until Brand's max extension, the biggest contract of a Clipper was Erik Piatkowski, at 5 yrs $15 mil. That alone should tell you what a joke the franchise is.

As for their draft, all of them sucked. They had Dirk and traded him to Dallas for Robert Traylor. They picked McDyess only to trade him for Brent Barry and a couple of scrubs, and that was the draft where Stackhouse, Rasheed Wallace, and Garnett went 3-5. They picked Olawokandi even though they have NEVER been able to develop any player, over the NBA-ready Mike Bibby. Listing Clippers draft failures is so easy it's not even funny. They suck so badly that people would the Clippers on TV just to hear Bill Walton makes fun of them the whole game.

Like I said, it's somewhat to do with luck too. You think they would have messed up drafting Duncan or Robinson? No, not even they can do that. They happened to draft high on poor years. And yes, Sterling is definitely one of the main factors that they can't hold on to players, I wasn't exonerating the team for their failures, I was just trying to explain them.

BTW, the Clippers didn't trade Dirk away, the Bucks did (trust me, I follow the Bucks very intently).

[Meh]

Like I said, it's somewhat to do with luck too. You think they would have messed up drafting Duncan or Robinson? No, not even they can do that. They happened to draft high on poor years.

But the difference between the Clippers and other teams is that they NEVER drafted a good player in recent memory. It's one thing to screw up on a couple of draft. But another to have consecutive misses the way the Clippers do. And while you might not expect a Duncan or a Yao, shouldn't they have at least one all-star by now? At some point, it stops being luck.

[Long]

Rumours have it that Rudy T will be the next Lakers coach:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200....ap/index.html

Though I must say this. I would feel very 'insulted' if I was Rudy T. Especially if they offer no where near the 5 year $30 million deal they were willing to pay an 'unproven' person in Coach K.

If signing Rudy T means that Kobe will leave, then let it be. Rudy T knows how to construct a winning team out of vetrans and young players. At least Rudy T's offense will be geared around Shaq and that should make him happy.

Given there's T-Mac/Yao in the NBA. I'd like to see how Kobe deals with this "combo" all by himself.

The other move the Lakers need to make is get rid of Mitch Kupchak as the GM. He is crap. Made too many mistakes this off season. I mean after what's he's done, even Rudy T is not going to feel "too welcomed" at LA. Get a GM that can chill Shaq down and make him happy. Also get someone capable of talking Shaq into taking a pay-cut. If Kobe goes, he'd probably be more willing.

Shaq is "unique" and LA should have realised that. With the lack of 'quality' Cs in the NBA, Shaq can dominate for a while yet. Kobe is problematic (on and off the court), but of 'high' value. Many teams were willing to take a risk for him. So a sign and trade was the LA's best option with Kobe. Now Kobe could walk 'scotch' free.

If Kobe leaves, then LA should pursue after Kenyon Martin in FA. Make him a decent deal and see if the Nets match it. Try to resign Karl Malone to play off the bench or as a starter at PF and Kenyon as a starter at SF.

Payton - Rush - Martin - Malone - Shaq + Rudy T should still make a strong run to the play-offs.

[spooks]

Kenyon doesn't play anything remotely close to a SF style so playing him there makes no sense at all. K-Mart a max player? I don't know about that but a lot of players are being grossly overpaid. Hedo, Foyle, Okur and Alston.

Quentin Richardson agreed to an offer sheet with Suns. They didn't get Kobe but picking up Nash and possibly Q for the same price is a great off season. Really nice core of young players they're building up.

[Long]

Originally posted by spooks
Kenyon doesn't play anything remotely close to a SF style so playing him there makes no sense at all. K-Mart a max player? I don't know about that.

Kenyon Martin played at SF when the Nets made the NBA Finals versus the Lakers. At that time Keith Van-Horn featured as the Nets PF. So Martin has played there before. But given Malone's knees if would probably be better to bring Malone off the bench during the regular season in any case.

There's no way I would offer Martin a "max" deal. In my post, I said, "decent deal". The way the Nets are going you could offer Martin anything you want as long as he agrees and the Nets will not match it. I would be using the money to sign Martin and resign Derek Fisher if possible.

[spooks]

Originally posted by Long
Kenyon Martin played at SF when the Nets made the NBA Finals versus the Lakers. At that time Keith Van-Horn featured as the Nets PF. So Martin has played there before. But given Malone's knees if would probably be better to bring Malone off the bench during the regular season in any case.

They played him there out of necessity not because he's a good SF. Everything about Martin screams PF playing him at SF does nothing for his game.

[Eliar Swiftfire]

Originally posted by Moinllieon
Must have been during a "hack-a-Shaq" moment. Perdue and Longley only have so many fouls between them.

Hm. Nah, I don't think Hack-a-Shaq was really used during the Bulls days (like they need to...). I'm sure they've used Rodman to cover centers before.

[Long]

Originally posted by spooks
They played him there out of necessity not because he's a good SF. Everything about Martin screams PF playing him at SF does nothing for his game.

Yeah I guess Martin isn't a fit for SF. But you gotta figure about that though. If there's a will there's a way.

Lakers in the 89 season had the best forward combination with AC Green (prominent PF), James Worthy (PF most of his career), and Orlando Wooldridge (PF most of his career). Both Worthy and Wooldridge were capable of playing SF/PF. Both have bodies of a PF. In fact I remember that year they played James Worthy as a SG on stints when they had a line-up of:

PG: Magic Johnson - 6'9
SG: James Worthy - 6'9
SF: Orlando Wooldrige - 6'9
PF: AC Green - 6'9
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 7'2

This line-up was expected to be slow, but was far from it. The would control the boards, outlet to JOhson. Worthy and Wooldridge would fill the lanes and get easy dunks. Worthy intimidated shots from any SG. He was even put on to defend the likes of MJ and Joe Dumars that season. They dominated both the defensive boards and offensive boards with this line-up. Wooldridge helped on "D" and rejected a lot of shots. It got even crazier when they insterted the 6'10 Michael Thompson to replace Green in the line-up. I think the reason why they did this was they lost Michael Cooper to Europe in the 89 season (could be wrong), that's why Worthy played a lot of SG when Byron Scott was rested.

Used to love this line-up crush the likes of the Suns, Sonics, and Balzers 4-0. But then they lost Scott and Magic in the Finals versus the Pistons and got sweapt as a result. So players just have to be "versatile" and not too one demensional.

Got the Lakers Dynasty series, and loved watching highlights of Kareem Abdul-Jabbar dribbling down the court with the basketball against Phoenix, and Dallas. He had better ball handling skills than Magic

Since Magic played at C in Game 6 of the 1980 NBA Finals, they should have played Kareem as a PG in the 89 NBA Finals when Magic was out through injury

[Long]

Originally posted by spooks
A lot of players are being grossly overpaid. Hedo, Foyle, Okur and Alston.

Yep - with such a poor FA market, I wonder why so many GMs are taking out their check books and wasting all that money? They all need to be

They should do what the Australian National Basketball League are doing these days to players who are asking too much. THey make an offer and if the player doesn't accept, they say, "oh well, I guess I'll wait for my younger players to develop. Goodbye." They leave that offer on the table, and the player usually doesn't find another team willing to pay that kind of money and they'll have to accept such a deal. So the GMs and owners are in a better position than the players.

I mean what can Hedo, Foyle, Okur, Alston, and others possibly do if all GMs around the leagues says offers them a 1 year contract for the NBA minimum??? ie, where ever they go, all the GMs around the league are willing to offer them a contract for only the NBA minimum??? Where else are they going to play?What can these guys do???

Absolutely no need to offer Alston 6 years at $30 million. I would have just offered him around 6 years for 15 million at best. If that's a pay cut for him, so be it. Who gives a dam.

[Moinllieon]

Originally posted by Eliar Swiftfire
Hm. Nah, I don't think Hack-a-Shaq was really used during the Bulls days (like they need to...). I'm sure they've used Rodman to cover centers before.

Right, was that why they kept Caffey, Brian Williams, Will Perdue, Bill Wennington, and Luc Longley on their team?

[duguxiaojing]

Hm. Nah, I don't think Hack-a-Shaq was really used during the Bulls days (like they need to...). I'm sure they've used Rodman to cover centers before.

Na man they had the three headed monster (i think it was longley,carwright and ???)+ rodman to grab and annoy shaq. I cant remember anyone actually stop shaq Str8 up on offensie end. Plus they also had alot of long armed defenders swarming around and collapsing.


PG: Magic Johnson - 6'9
SG: James Worthy - 6'9
SF: Orlando Wooldrige - 6'9
PF: AC Green - 6'9
C: Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - 7'2

Damn..big line up four power forwards and a centre.

Payton - Rush - Martin - Malone - Shaq + Rudy T should still make a strong run to the play-offs.

I seriously would rather see shaq leaving to dallas, LA without shaq and KB would seem too weird for me to cheer for. This team would proboally have a hard time making it outta first round in the west.