Amy Winehouse and other celebrities

[Suet Seung]

Okay. Since TC won't come in here and step up to the plate and restate what he said about shark fin eating and what he said about Amy Winehouse, I'll try to best recreate what he said from memory. TC, you can feel free to fill in the gaps, I missed, because I don't remember word for word.

TC said:

You guys like to mention my name huh? You guys against me eating shark fin eating and there's something wrong with being politically incorrect.

The children in Norway and people in the Chinese bullet train had no choice in dying, but Amy Winehouse was drug and alcohol abuser so she made a choice in dying (something to that extent but his words were cruder like she deserved to die).

And at the time, I said, Amy Winehouse's cause of death hasn't been revealed or explained yet. So how can you assume that she died of drug/alcohol? I told TC, that I was never involved in his debate about Shark Fin eating and I don't care if he eats shark fin or not. He should be glad that no shark comes and eat him or his family because he eats shark fin and their family. Yes, I made that comment because he smugly claim I was against him. So just because Sharks aren't human, doesn't allow people to have the right to eat them as freely as they should.

And when I said it, I didn't mean for actual sharks to eat him or his family, but for him to imagine how sharks might feel when they see their shark family being hunted to become his shark fin soup. Of course, the word choices weren't nice and I'm not saying I'm right about this. He sees things one sided, just because sharks aren't human and is a mammal, humans have rights to eat them like they're chicken, beef, fish,pork? At the time, he brought it up, so I continued, which I know I can't take back things that is already posted.

I already said I don't condone Winehouse's drinking and drug use, so he can't say that I'm defending her for drinking/drug use then group me with the bunch of people who were really involved in his shark fin eating. If the man can afford eating shark fin and consider how dangerous it is for the people to go near a shark and provide him with such shark fin eating, by all means he can eat it if he wishes. I just don't care for shark fin like I don't care for snails but the French seem to like eskargo(sp?). Certain delicacies I wouldn't taste, even if I were rich.


Then he retorted about not talking about his family. Well, I wouldn't make any comment if he didn't first accuse me of ever being against him. I've ignored him for at least 2-3 yrs for the most part and ignored what he was debating about in Open Debate. Why right does he give to accuse me lamely about shark fin? Yes, its clear, I don't appreciate him being rude to the death, but really did I mention anything else besides that?

[Suet Seung]

I've made sound arguements, but all you guys can do is blindly defend freedom of expression for the concept of it. And do you Dirt and IcyFox acknowledge the implicit obligations that comes with the Freedom of Expression? The implicit obligations are to use this freedom responsibly and not as "a license for reckless and irresponsible behavior masquerading as freedom."

I've made the changes for you three to feel free to talk any way you want about the dead. I'm washing my hands of this unjust talk. Poor dead celebrities can't do anything because they're dead and can't sue people for libel and slander. People on this forum can bash the celebrities, while these celebrities can't say anything back.

And last word, I was never a fan of Amy Winehouse either in singing or wardrobe choices and never condone her drinking/drug usage, but I still hope she rests in PEACE. Will someone who actually knew about how she died, tell me how she did? Instead of assumptions made base on her habits?

Just because she drank and used drugs like the other singers and entertainers before her, does it DEFINE entirely who she was? Really? I'd like to know if people's mistake define the person they are and will they be forced to have that label all their life? Are they screwed because they make mistakes? Do mistakes you made, define everything in your character?

[Dirt]

You've made sound arguments supporting an arbitrary and power abusing action. While my desire to never see a post deleted is based on my unwavering support for freedom of expression, this conversation has long evolved into a debate on the self-serving and abusive powers of a Mod against a Member who does not, because he cannot, stand on equal footing in regards to what can and cannot be said in defense or support of their arguments.

Case in point: If I find that I do not like a post that you have made in this thread, can I have it deleted? Can I have a post by xJadedx deleted or even IcyFox?

[Suet Seung]

You've made sound arguments supporting an arbitrary and power abusing action.

What you're defending isn't really freedom of expression!

[Dirt]

What you're defending isn't really freedom of expression!

Repost from an edit above:

While my desire to never see a post deleted is based on my unwavering support for freedom of expression, this conversation has long evolved into a debate on the self-serving and abusive powers of a Mod against a Member who does not, because he cannot, stand on equal footing in regards to what can and cannot be said in defense or support of their arguments.

Case in point: If I find that I do not like a post that you have made in this thread, can I have it deleted? Can I have a post by xJadedx deleted or even IcyFox?

[Suet Seung]

Repost from an edit above:

While my desire to never see a post deleted is based on my unwavering support for freedom of expression, this conversation has long evolved into a debate on the self-serving and abusive powers of a Mod against a Member who does not, because he cannot, stand on equal footing in regards to what can and cannot be said in defense or support of their arguments.

Case in point: If I find that I do not like a post that you have made in this thread, can I have it deleted? Can I have a post by xJadedx deleted or even IcyFox?

You can misinterpret my intentions all you want. You support the freedom of expression, but how come TC hasn't come in to take responsibility for the remarks he made? Ahem. Post #17 and 19 of this thread.

What more do you expect me to do? What 2 posts have been deleted and cannot be revived. So I've separated the posts from Amy Winehouse's thread and put them in a new thread in the Open Debate thread for you guys to do whatever you want with your freedom of expression.

[Ren Ying Ying]

This is a public forums and one does technically have the right to talk however one wants about any celebrity (dead or alive).

However, it is another thing to insult members of the forum. So unless the celebrities happen to be members of this forum, then I don't see why one can't trash talk about them.

Though, I think one should also respect the topic starter and his or her wishes for the content of the thread. For example, it would be pretty offensive for someone to go into a celebrity thread and continously bashing the celebrity. If you don't like the actor/actress...then just don't visit the thread.

But, if you are the first to mention another forum member's name in the thread, then you are giving an open invitation for him/her to join in the thread...whether you like it or not. This is an open forum and if a member doesn't like his/her name mentioned in a post/thread, he/she does also have the right to defend themselves.

I haven't read the topic of TC's posts, so I can't have a say on whether or not they are truely offensive and deserve to be deleted.

On another note, the best way to treat these problems are:
$this->handle_bbcode_img_match('http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h341/net0ranger/dont-feed-the-troll.jpg')

Case in point: If I find that I do not like a post that you have made in this thread, can I have it deleted? Can I have a post by xJadedx deleted or even IcyFox?

If you have good reason to think it should be deleted, then I'm sure you can report the issue to a mod or the administrator

[Suet Seung]

Thanks RYY for the reminder, I have ignored the troll for so long, I should keep ignoring it, instead of being sucked into this needless arguement.

Dirt, I've tried to mend this problem. And you have my word, that I won't delete another post, unless its from an actual spammer. TC can make whatever outlandish arguements and talk about dead celebrities. Whatever reputation TC creates for himself, he's free to uphold that reputation.

But I would also like to ask TC to keep out of threads with the focus on a singer's passing not to be judged on her actions. However, if TC would like to create a new thread and talk about a certain singer or celebrity, feel free to do so. I just wish he had the respect to not post off topic on a thread that doesn't have that objective to disrespect the memory of an artist. So go create a new thread.

[IcyFox]

If you have good reason to think it should be deleted, then I'm sure you can report the issue to a mod or the administrator

Ahh, ordinarily that is not a problem. But, you see, what if I want to delete a Mod's or the Admin's comments? Or, what if I want to delete another member's post, but I happen to be a Mod myself? Should I delete the offending posts at my convenience?

[IcyFox]

And you have my word, that I won't delete another post, unless its from an actual spammer. TC can make whatever outlandish arguements and talk about dead celebrities. Whatever reputation TC creates for himself, he's free to uphold that reputation.

This IS the freedom of expression that I support. Misinformation cannot be corrected by censorship, but only by real and factual information.

[ByTmE]

I guess being politically incorrect is very unpopular around here.

I actually find that this forum is pretty tolerant of people's differing opinions...as long as it's presented in a respectful and dignified manner. Most of us seem to be the, "not in my backyard" type people, but sometimes some of us piss on other people's lawn too much.

[Suet Seung]

This IS the freedom of expression that I support. Misinformation cannot be corrected by censorship, but only by real and factual information.

Whatever censorship I mistakely done, I cannot undo, but I've reposted what he and I posted as best as I could from memory since he won't step up to the plate and do it himself. Besides, I have nothing to hide. Is either TC or me correct? Nope. Neither of us were correct.

I've already given my word in public that I won't delete anything TC posts. Whether his reputation be fragrantful or smelly, it's his to uphold.

[IcyFox]

Whatever censorship I mistakely done, I cannot undo, but I've reposted what he and I posted as best as I could from memory since he won't step up to the plate and do it himself. Besides, I have nothing to hide. Is either TC or me correct? Nope. Neither of us were correct.

I've already given my word in public that I won't delete anything TC posts. Whether his reputation be fragrantful or smelly, it's his to uphold.

That is a very courageous and magnanimous resolution. Kudos to you for that.

[ByTmE]

That is a very courageous and magnanimous resolution. Kudos to you for that.

That's why she's the ~MmMoDEratOoORr~

[Ren Ying Ying]

Ahh, ordinarily that is not a problem. But, you see, what if I want to delete a Mod's or the Admin's comments? Or, what if I want to delete another member's post, but I happen to be a Mod myself? Should I delete the offending posts at my convenience?

There are more than one mods available, so I'm sure you can appeal to others or spcnet herself.
And if you are a mod, you are still subjected to criticism by fellow members the way you guys criticized SMSS (and which she took with grace).

I suppose the only member that has almight power is spcnet

[Banh Mi]

Wow, Icyfox rocking the diplomacy here.

[Trien Chieu]

"I have the right to talk any way I want about the dead celebrities! They're bad!"

I do not want that headline, that is not something I would post. Please don't put word into my mouth. Please change it to "Amy Winehouse"



This was my first post.

And just because I have a feeling TC is going to come in and give his usual rant about "living a decent life, blah blah blah" - learn to have some respect for a dead person, even if it's someone you don't like much.

I know TC will come in here and give the usual disrespectful rant. Celebrity are people too and any death of a person is sad and should not be disrespected. Winehouse was a singer, not some tyrant or murderer, therefore she shouldn't be insulted even after her death. If she abused alcohol and drugs, it doesn't give you the right to judge her, she's not a saint or a god, so don't expect her to be a perfect human being..

You two are obsessed with me? How come keep mentioning my name before I made any comment.

Suet Seung, I guess you are a typical liberal who loves to condemn people who consume shark fin something which is harmless and at the same time defending drug/alcohol users.

But over all, whether it be the many children that died in Norway, the people that died in the bullet train in China or Amy Winehouse, no one should be talking about a dead person or take their death lightly. Everyone has parents, family and friends who loved them.

There is a big difference between them so don't put them in the same category. Children from Norway are victims of massive killing and people from China are victims of accident, something beyond their control. On the other hand, what happened to Amy Winehouse was self-inflicted. May all rest in peace.

Note: Suet Seung, if you did not bash me regarding shark fin, then I am sincerely apologized. However, there are a lot of people here condemn shark fin consumers but at the same time defending drug/alcohol abusers.

[Suet Seung]

"I have the right to talk any way I want about the dead celebrities! They're bad!"

I do not want that headline, that is not something I would post. Please don't put word into my mouth. Please change it to "Amy Winehouse"



This was my first post.


Note: My name was in Suet Seung's original post and she condemned me before I made any comment.

You two are obsessed with me? How come keep mentioning my name before I made any comment.

Suet Seung, I guess you are a typical liberal who loves to condemn people who consume shark fin something which is harmless and at the same time defending drug/alcohol users. I guess being politically incorrect is very unpopular around here.



There is a big difference between them so don't put them in the same category. Children from Norway are victims of massive killing and people from China are victims of accident, something beyond their control. On the other hand, what happened to Amy Winehouse was self-inflicted. May all rest in peace.

Note: Suet Seung, if you did not bash me regarding shark fin, then I am sincerely apologize. However, there are a lot of people here condemn shark fin consumers but at the same time defending drug/alcohol abusers.

Trien Chieu, Have Jaded and I actually condemned you wrongly? Let's be honest here, have you never talked disrespectfully about dead celebrities and made their actions horrendous and evil enough to be comparison to horrible people like Hitler and Nazis? Or at least talk like you know them all your life and make such liberrate (or is it liberal?) comments about them as if you know them best and personally? Do you know the real person behind celebrity persona enough to put your judgements against them? Or do you hear stuff on the news and media and automatically believe single bit of news to be true? Does every action they make define who they are? Are they just stuck with such labels and can't change their image?

I don't know, you've given at least Jaded and I the impression that you do not care or have a ounce of respect for people who die. You want proof people? Check the Entertainment News Forum and see how many times TC has ever paid respect to a dead celebrity or famous person without giving judgement on their past or present mistakes.

OK. So what's the latest news on how Amy Winehouse died? Was it really self-inflicted as you say? Do you have some news articles to back up what you've been saying? But then again, self-inflicted or not, Amy Winehouse and everyone who've died recently still DESERVES to be mourned. They died, man. Don't they deserve to die in peace w/o your judgement? Did a higher being deemed you judger of people's death?

Yes, I ignored you for the greater part of time, so I was never in the shark fin consuming talk that you pinned on me. I thank you for finally coming forth.

TC - Do me a favor the next time you want to bring the topic to a different direction, make a new thread and bring up some evidence to back up your claims. I'm sure people will love to debate with you.

[kidd]

Bottom line. Lets not mention TC and predict what he will do before he does it. Give him the benefit of the doubt.

It's not the first time I see TC being mentioned this way. Out of the blue there will be 'I predict TC will..', 'TC will ...', 'TC is going to' etc comment pops up.

Seut Seung was also right to delete the post if it contains personal attack. Looking at bits and piece of information given here, the posts she deleted did contain personal attacks, and off topic too. Seems like a lot of angry exchange has been going on in that thread from both sides.

[Trien Chieu]

Regarding Amy Winehouse, I did not make any disrespect comment toward her because what she did was a personal mistake. She harmed herself but no one else and I just pointed out the truth regarding her drugs and alcohol abused.

I am not a blind celebrities worshiper, I would condemn their wrongdoings. Who did I condemn? Michael Jackson?? Yeah, I condemned the guy harshly because he raped/molested children.

I apologized to you regarding my comment about shark fin, but you still haven't apologize to me regarding your personal attack against my family.