OT: Wuxia Forum Community Relations Referendum (all members invited)

[PJ]

Who is Tsor Lang Sim? Can you even give me a rough approximation in pinyin?

Sounds like Zuo Lengchan.

[Ken Cheng]

Your father was right. 20 years is not too long to rediscover that!

Yeah...well, I suppose TVB and Sam Hui f*cked it up more than they ever f*cked up DGSD, LOCH, ROCH, or HSDS, because those were at least coherent and entertaining even if they weren't accurate.

I didn't know what to make of SPW '84 or the movie version. They were among the most incoherent things I've ever seen. Only the first MISSION IMPOSSIBLE movie with Tom Cruise is worse.

Who is Tsor Lang Sim? Can you even give me a rough approximation in pinyin?

I can Cantonese it:

Jor - as in "left"

laung - as in "cold"

seem - as in...well, I'm not sure, but it's the same "seem" sound as "seem see"...Zen Master (no, not Phil Jackson).

[Ren Wo Xing]

Just give it serious consideration . I promise you'll enjoy it, and you will get mad props from us forumites for finally venturing into the great world of the Jinyong novel.

Zuo Lengchan. He was actually an extremely skilled fighter, perhaps half a level to a level or so beneath the likes of Fang Zheng/Ren Woxing. If we consider the top tier to be DFBB, and Fang Zheng/Ren Woxing/Chong Xu to be the second tier, Zuo Lengchan would either be lower second tier, or higher third tier. So he was definitely an exceptionally skilled fighter.

[tape]

SOD '96 was pretty accurate for the most part. A lot of the dialogue is exactly as it is in the novel. I have to say though, reading about Lin Pingzi's and Lin Zhennan's story is a lot more exciting and entertaining than it's ever possible to portray in a series I think.

[Ken Cheng]

Zuo Lengchan. He was actually an extremely skilled fighter, perhaps half a level to a level or so beneath the likes of Fang Zheng/Ren Woxing. If we consider the top tier to be DFBB, and Fang Zheng/Ren Woxing/Chong Xu to be the second tier, Zuo Lengchan would either be lower second tier, or higher third tier. So he was definitely an exceptionally skilled fighter.

My dad did say he was a good fighter, just not quite near the very best in SPW.

But for some reason, my dad kept on saying that Ling Wu Chung was invincible. Ling Wu Chung never did become invincible, even at the end, did he?

The Sam Hui SWORDSMAN movie made Tsor Lang Sim seem invincible, which was weird. Also, everything was dark and people were flying all the time. I *hate* wuxia movies where everything is dark and people are flying all the time.

[Candide]

But for some reason, my dad kept on saying that Ling Wu Chung was invincible. Ling Wu Chung never did become invincible, even at the end, did he?

Ooooh that's a spoiler. We won't ruin the ending of the novel for you, mate.

[tape]

Well I guess Linghu Chong becomes invincibile in a sense in the end in that he would never be fighting anyone that could beat him. The Shaolin Abbot/Feng Qing Yang/Priest Chongxu are better than him but they would never be in a circumstance to fight him, so I guess he's invincible.

[Ren Wo Xing]

After he learned Yijinjing? Maybe, maybe not...

[Ren Wo Xing]

SOD '96 was pretty accurate for the most part. A lot of the dialogue is exactly as it is in the novel. I have to say though, reading about Lin Pingzi's and Lin Zhennan's story is a lot more exciting and entertaining than it's ever possible to portray in a series I think.

Yes, this is absolutely true. Just one more reason why it's so hard for adaptations to give XAJH justice.

[kidd]

The she-male thing comes up only in one chapter, extremely late in the book; unlike the adaptations, DFBB doesn't make an appearance at all throughout most of the novel, thus making its first (and final) appearance such a shocker. And, to be honest, not a single XAJH adaptation has been very faithful at all.

Have you seen SOD96? I heard, of all adapations, this adaptation is the closest to the novel (with some minor changes and plot expandation that improve the series) and it's the best SOD plotwise and has the best Linghu Chong.

In that series, DFBB comes out at the right time, late into the series and only for a short while.

http://www.spcnet.tv/TVB-Series/Stat...nity-p442.html

This is the only 90's adaptation that many people acknowledge is superior to it's 80's counterpart.

[Ken Cheng]

Have you seen SOD96? I heard, of all adapations, this the adaptation is the closest to the novel (with some minor changed and plot expandation that improve the series) and it's the best SOD96 plotwise and has the best Linghu Chong.

In that series, DFBB comes out at the right time, late into the series and only for a short while.

http://www.spcnet.tv/TVB-Series/Stat...nity-p442.html

SPW '84 definitely got it wrong. That adaptation had Dung Fong But Bai at the beginning...then he (still firmly "he" at that point) disappears from the story for a looooong time. She (yes, "she" by now) re-emerges about four-fifths into the story...only to rapidly get killed off. But the story's not over! After DFBB kicks the bucket, then SPW '84 goes into the long, drawn out story about Yam Ngor Hang and Ngok But Kwun, which bored me to tears.

The whole SPW '84 experience bored me to tears. No wonder Chow Yun Fat hated acting in it. I would've hated acting in it too.

[Ken Cheng]

By the way...the irony has not escaped me that this is the first-time ever that an off-topic thread somehow got hijacked into becoming ON-topic (as far as wuxia subjects are concerned). Usually, the opposite happens.

[kidd]

SPW '84 definitely got it wrong. That adaptation had Dung Fong But Bai at the beginning...then he (still firmly "he" at that point) disappears from the story for a looooong time. She (yes, "she" by now) re-emerges about four-fifths into the story...only to rapidly get killed off. But the story's not over! After DFBB kicks the bucket, then SPW '84 goes into the long, drawn out story about Yam Ngor Hang and Ngok But Kwun, which bored me to tears.

The whole SPW '84 experience bored me to tears. No wonder Chow Yun Fat hated acting in it. I would've hated acting in it too.

Ok, I made a mistake. I need to clarify. What I mean is she-male DFBB came out very late. The manly DFBB made a few appearances, but not much. So, when 'she' finally made an appearance, it will still be a shocker for someone who knows nothing about the story beforehand. After the DFBB arch, came the Ren Wo Xing/Yue Bu Qun arch. But, I don't find it draggy at all.

I think SOD96 was one of the series I finish the fastest. I find it entertaining and addicting. After I finish the series, I search everywhere for the VCD/DVD (I rented the VHS tapes from rental stall when I first watch this series) for keep.

I've only watch 1 episode of SPW84 when I was in a hotel (we stay for my cousin's wedding) and I nearly fell asleep watching that one episode.

TVB!!! PLEASE RELEASE THE OFFICIAL VCD/DVD OF THIS SERIES!!!

TVB has released so many mediocre series in VCD\DVD format, but not this gem. Injustice.

[Candide]

By the way...the irony has not escaped me that this is the first-time ever that an off-topic thread somehow got hijacked into becoming ON-topic (as far as wuxia subjects are concerned). Usually, the opposite happens.

If we bring it back to your original topic (like it is in the first post) would that be on topic or off topic? I'm confused.

I'd write something but your first post is Massive and it intimidates me.

[bellamia]

Ken, I do hope that this is not just simply a self-reflecting thread because you have something to get off your chest, but that you are sincere in addressing the bigger picture - which is broadening the Wuxia community.

Seriously, is reading intrinsically more valuable than watching TV? Who is to say that watching TV adaptations can't be as thought-provoking as reading the novels? If Gu Long and Jin Yong only wanted the faithful to read their novels, then they wouldn’t have produced and re-produced so many TV adaptations over the years. These authors recognized that the most effective way to reach a mass audience and popularizing their work is through television. And they are absolutely right, because it is through TV series that the majority of people are introduced to wuxia. Thus, I don’t see the need for Ken and others to read the novels in order to appreciate the stories and the characters. Really, who is to say that their perceptions, feelings, and opinions are any less valuable than the people who have read the texts?

Nevertheless, having said all that, I have to say that I also understand where PJ’s coming from. I believe that if you want to play the game, then you have to understand the rules. If you want to engage in a debate, then you have to back up your arguments with facts, period. Thus, I understand people’s frustration of having to correct an individual each time, because his facts, well, simply aren’t facts! I don’t engage in the discussions here as much as I do in other forums, because I don’t want to make the same mistake of “assuming” and then get ridiculed for it. But my limitation is something that I’m willing to accept. I’m not going to cry for understanding or make excuses for it. I have deep admiration for those who have read the novels, because frankly, they bored me to tears. Even though, I’m not an active participant in this forum, I’ve learned a lot over the years, by reading all the intelligence and insightful posts from the wuxia snobs. *totally tongue in cheek*

In my opinion, the Wuxia forum is a small club made up by very few individuals. I wonder if it would help broaden the wuxia community if we divide the wuxia forum into two categories: Wuxia Forum – ‘Discussion from the Novels’ and ‘Discussion from the TV adaptations.’ Hopefully, this might encourage people with series background to engage in meaningful discussions of the stories and the characters, and not have to worry about formality and ridicules.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Seriously, is reading intrinsically more valuable than watching TV? Who is to say that watching TV adaptations can't be as thought-provoking as reading the novels? If Gu Long and Jin Yong only wanted the faithful to read their novels, then they wouldn’t have produced and re-produced so many TV adaptations over the years. These authors recognized that the most effective way to reach a mass audience and popularizing their work is through television. And they are absolutely right, because it is through TV series that the majority of people are introduced to wuxia.

Quick comment; Jin Yong and Gulong haven't produced a single TV adaptation. They license their work out to movie makers/series writers, who make the adaptations, and pay them for the right. Jin Yong in particular has been vociferous about his complaints about how crappy a lot of the series have been, and how much they've deviated from his original work and his original intent. Gulong, being dead, can't do that.

Oh, and I think most people (probably including Ken, an educator) do agree that reading is intrinsically more valuable than watching TV. This is true not just for wuxia.

With that being said, perhaps a 'Wuxia literature' and 'Wuxia adaptations' subforum might be a good idea for the Wuxia fiction forum.

[bellamia]

Jin Yong in particular has been vociferous about his complaints about how crappy a lot of the series have been, and how much they've deviated from his original work and his original intent.

I believe he is very involved in the movie-making process, even picking out the casts himself.

Oh, and I think most people (probably including Ken, an educator) do agree that reading is intrinsically more valuable than watching TV. This is true not just for wuxia.

I disagree. There is an equal amount of crappy book as there is of TV show. And this applies to even some school textbooks. Reading doesn’t necessarily mean you are learning – and learning doesn’t necessary mean that you are learning good things. In addition, there are many visual learners who learn best from what they see than what they read.

[Extremer88]

The novels are meant to be a haven for the readers to imagine, to visualise the characters themselves. TV adaptations are very "tangible", as in you can't imagine much how the characters would look like, or express etc.

[Candide]

I believe he is very involved in the movie-making process, even picking out the casts himself.

Only recently, as he got sick of dickhead producers & directors picking fuglies and hacks to play his characters.

TV adaptations are very "tangible", as in you can't imagine much how the characters would look like, or express etc.

I can imagine the mainland actresses in recent adaptations naked.

[kidd]

I believe he is very involved in the movie-making process, even picking out the casts himself.

I believe he only did so in the recent adaptations. I don't think he was involved in the making of the 80's and 90's adaptations. Even in the recently Mainland adaptations, I think he only involved because the director seek his opinion.

As for picking the cast, as far as I know, the only cast he pick is LYF as XLN. The others are all under the director's discretion.